- From: Chris Mejia <chris.mejia@iab.net>
- Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:58:33 +0000
- To: Alex Fowler <afowler@mozilla.com>, "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>
- CC: Alan Chapell - Chapell Associates <achapell@chapellassociates.com>
- Message-ID: <7311AB05D142B6489F20AFA8DDAECAE8C42E70A6@IAB-NYC-EX1.IAB.local>
Also, please see the attached screenshot of the Firefox start page, where Mozilla states: "What if companies could track you offline like they do online? Watch this winning video from Firefox Flicks for the answer." (links to video in question) So Alex, how again are we to suppose that this video does not convey a Mozilla policy statement? Again, when your company engages in telling/promoting balanced stories (both sides of this issue) in a responsible manner, we'll consider that you are not misleading people¡¦ then. Chris Mejia | Digital Supply Chain Solutions | Ad Technology Group | Interactive Advertising Bureau - IAB From: Chris Mejia - IAB <chris.mejia@iab.net<mailto:chris.mejia@iab.net>> Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:31 AM To: Alex Fowler - Mozilla <afowler@mozilla.com<mailto:afowler@mozilla.com>>, W3C DNT Working Group Mailing List <public-tracking@w3.org<mailto:public-tracking@w3.org>> Cc: Alan Chapell - Chapell Associates <achapell@chapellassociates.com<mailto:achapell@chapellassociates.com>> Subject: Re: ACTION-212: Draft text on how user agents must obtain consent to turn on a DNT signal Resent-From: W3C DNT Working Group Mailing List <public-tracking@w3.org<mailto:public-tracking@w3.org>> Resent-Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:32 AM Alex, the Mozilla logo is at the end of the video, along with the statement "Take control of your online privacy. Firefox prioritizes principles over profit". Does this not mean that Mozilla endorses the assertions and positions expressed in the video? If not, then have you lost copyright and trademark controls regarding the Firefox brand? Also, please have a look at the press release (http://media.wix.com/ugd//622630_545469745f4c6429bddf261e45f1f88b.pdf) where it states: "After calling on creatives and filmmakers around the world to help tell the story of Mozilla Firefox, the biggest non-for-profit web browser, the competition received over 450 submissions from thousands of filmmakers worldwide." "Mozilla will now be working with the winning team on plans to incorporate their work into a global marketing campaign." The winner of this contest apparently received $60k from Mozilla to expand this video into a global campaign for Mozilla. So I'm just wondering if you plan on working with the film makers to tell a balanced story? Will they tell the sad (and maybe not so "quirky:) story where, without ad supported content, pay walls start popping up everywhere online¡¦ and must start paying to access their favorite social media sites, play games that were once free, and pay for search. Will that side of the story be told Alex? THAT story might also resonate with people. Chris Mejia | Digital Supply Chain Solutions | Ad Technology Group | Interactive Advertising Bureau - IAB On 11/19/12 10:17 PM, "Alex Fowler" <afowler@mozilla.com<mailto:afowler@mozilla.com>> wrote: Against my better judgement, I can't resist the urge to respond, Alan. A piece of community contributed video by a filmmaker in Ireland is *not* a policy statement by Mozilla nor is it evidence that we're engaged in misleading people. The most one can say is this video establishes the topic of online tracking resonates with people, as the judges for this award were Ed Norton, Shauna Robertson (Meet the Parents), Jeffrey Silver (Tron: Legacy) and Ben Silverman (The Office) and a group of young filmmakers. See https://firefoxflicks.mozilla.org/en-US/judges. The festival rules didn't say anything about the topics people should explore and no Mozilla employees were involved in selecting finalists/winners. On 11/19/12 9:00 PM, Alan Chapell wrote: David - I think its reasonable to ask those looking for exceptions to communicate the essence of the proposed exchange in a way that is accurate and complete. I could not disagree more with your assertion that "browsers cannot 'hide' whatever their options are, and have little direct incentive to mislead anyone." There are a number of examples that indicate otherwise... Just curious - how would you characterize this video? It apparently was good enough to win an award from Mozilla, so it seems fair to say that Mozilla thinks its an appropriate depiction of tracking. http://www.seanoriordantv.com/#!FIREFOX/c1xhv On 11/19/12 6:32 PM, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com<mailto:singer@apple.com>> wrote: On Nov 18, 2012, at 10:03 , Alan Chapell <achapell@chapellassociates.com<mailto:achapell@chapellassociates.com>> wrote: I agree -- specifying exact wording isn't a great idea - but that's not what I'm suggesting. Setting the expectation that UA's communicate DNT functionality clearly and completely addresses the very real possibility that some UA's will characterize DNT functionality in a way that is a) unclear, b) filled with hyperbole, or those that c) enact DNT without even telling Users. While I think that public, marketplace and regulatory pressure might address c), I tend to doubt that they will address a) and b). I'm a bit surprised that this is so controversial. After all, the goal here is to provide consumer's with informed choice, correct? Alan I take it, following this thread, that you OK with even stronger language for sites, when they are getting consent for an exception? Sites have every incentive to get users to agree, and it's easy to call the API to log the exception with the UA. In contrast, the browsers cannot 'hide' whatever their options are, and have little direct incentive to mislead anyone. On 11/18/12 12:35 PM, "Rigo Wenning" <rigo@w3.org<mailto:rigo@w3.org>> wrote: On Thursday 15 November 2012 15:46:14 David Singer wrote: ©øThe User Agent MUST make available explanatory text to provide more detailed information about DNT functionality within easy and direct access for the particular environment prior to DNT being enabled.©÷ and all sites will, of course, be mandated to do the same or better for exception requests? <joke> YES! All sides MUST implement P3P to fulfill DNT! After 10 years, the magic bullet to get ubiquituous P3P adoption. </joke> I thought we have always worked under the assumption that we do not proscribe UA GUI. Because my experience is that we can write whatever we want into a Specification, but UAs won' t necessarily honor that. UI is where browsers compete. While some simple, well-tested proscribed text would probably create some kind of a circuit where users better understand and adapt their expectations, I don't see momentum. I rather think that it creates an eco-system where browser that promise too much can be punished by users who are deceived and by sites responding that they won't honor. And we'll see waves into one or the other direction before it stabilizes. Rigo David Singer Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
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Received on Wednesday, 21 November 2012 17:59:43 UTC