- From: Alan Chapell <achapell@chapellassociates.com>
- Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:57:33 -0500
- To: Justin Brookman <justin@cdt.org>, <public-tracking@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CCC90819.25A37%achapell@chapellassociates.com>
Hi Justin - The issue with your argument below is that it suffers from the same sort of cognitive dissonance that has permeated a good deal of this group's thinking over the past year. Many in this group have started with the premise that the privacy protections that Users receive from DNT are self-evident so they don't need to be explained or quantified within the context of the actual impact of this groups work. Hence, a User's "affirmative decision for privacy" is presumed with little discussion of what that actually means. And as a result, a wide latitude is given to UA's to describe the DNT functionality however they see fit. Conversely, when it comes to the impact of DNT ‹ the "unproven parade of horribles" to use your verbiage --- these things must be proven to a metaphysical certainty to have any impact on the group's work. Why is that? Are you willing to bet your reputation that DNT won't have a negative impact on consumer content choices? From: Justin Brookman <justin@cdt.org> Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:06 PM To: <public-tracking@w3.org> Subject: Re: ACTION-212: Draft text on how user agents must obtain consent to turn on a DNT signal Resent-From: <public-tracking@w3.org> Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:07:11 +0000 > > > This language is absurdly prescriptive. I am unaware of any other privacy > tool offered by a web browser that mandates an explication of the potential > negative consequences of making an affirmative decision for privacy. If > publishers and third parties want to deny users content based on a DNT signal, > that is their choice, but requiring disclosure about an unproven parade of > horribles in advance is not something that a technical standards setting body > should be contemplating. > > I leave it to others to opine as to whether it is even possible for all user > agents to monitor all other user agents' configuration of DNT settings and > confirm those choices with a user, but again it sounds burdensome and > prescriptive. Would that confirmation also require disclosure about the > potential negative consequences of choosing to turn on DNT? > > Justin Brookman > Director, Consumer Privacy > Center for Democracy & Technology > 1634 I Street NW, Suite 1100 > Washington, DC 20006 > tel 202.407.8812 > fax 202.637.0969 > justin@cdt.orghttp://www.cdt.org > @CenDemTech > @JustinBrookman > On 11/13/2012 1:35 PM, David Wainberg wrote: > > >> Hi Jeff, >> >> I don't follow your statement that this would rob users of effective privacy >> tools. It merely ensures that DNT signals reflect users' deliberate choices, >> and that users are provided information about the effects of their choices. I >> don't see why that should be controversial. >> >> -David >> >> >> On 11/13/12 12:31 PM, Jeffrey Chester wrote: >> >> >>> This thrust is very problematic and I believe robs users of effective >>> privacy tools under DNT ("A user agent must not express a tracking >>> preference for a user."). CDD certainly cannot support such a proposal, and >>> there needs to be a robust discussion on the negative impact to users from >>> denying them privacy protection through IE and other browsers. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Center for Digital Democracy >>> >>> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550 >>> >>> Washington, DC 20009 >>> >>> >>> www.democraticmedia.org <http://www.democraticmedia.org> >>> >>> www.digitalads.org <http://www.digitalads.org> >>> >>> 202-986-2220 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 13, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Alan Chapell wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks Shane. I've proposed some additions (IN BOLD) to your language. >>>> Thanks to David Wainberg for help drafting, and Walter for providing some >>>> direction with his comments to the list. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Section 5. User Agent Compliance >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A user agent must offer a control to express a tracking preference to third >>>> parties. The control must communicate the user's preference in accordance >>>> with the [TRACKING-DNT] recommendation and otherwise comply with that >>>> recommendation. A user agent must not express a tracking preference for a >>>> user unless the user has given express and informed consent to indicate a >>>> tracking preference. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A UA MUST incorporate detection mechanisms for alteration of >>>> DNT-preferences by third-party software (including third-party >>>> UA-extensions and plugins) and MUST upon detection of such changes verify >>>> with the user that they reflect the user's intentions. The UA MAY provide >>>> the user with the option to ignore future changes in the DNT-preferences or >>>> to automatically change them back to a user-set preference. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "The User Agent MUST make available explanatory text to provide more >>>> detailed information about DNT functionality within easy and direct access >>>> for the particular environment prior to DNT being enabled. The explanatory >>>> text MUST include information pertaining to the effects of DNT, including >>>> that the User's choice to enact DNT might interfere with the operation of >>>> certain content and services and might limit free content that may be >>>> available to the User." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Shane Wiley <wileys@yahoo-inc.com> >>>> Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 5:19 AM >>>> To: "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org> >>>> Subject: ACTION-212: Draft text on how user agents must obtain consent to >>>> turn on a DNT signal >>>> Resent-From: <public-tracking@w3.org> >>>> Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 10:20:06 +0000 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [Proposed, New Text in Quotes ³ ³] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Section 5. User Agent Compliance >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A user agent must offer a control to express a tracking preference to >>>>> third parties. The control must communicate the user's preference in >>>>> accordance with the [TRACKING-DNT] recommendation and otherwise comply >>>>> with that recommendation. A user agent must not express a tracking >>>>> preference for a user unless the user has given express and informed >>>>> consent to indicate a tracking preference. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ³The User Agent MUST make available explanatory text to provide more >>>>> detailed information about DNT functionality within easy and direct access >>>>> for the particular environment prior to DNT being enabled.² >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
Received on Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:58:02 UTC