Re: ACTION-212: Draft text on how user agents must obtain consent to turn on a DNT signal

Colleagues,

There was consensus around the idea that a compliant UA would represent the user's choice.  There is NOT consensus around what a compliant server may do if it receives a facially valid DNT:1 from a browser that the server believes to be noncompliant...

73s,
John

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John M. Simpson
Consumer Advocate
Consumer Watchdog
2701 Ocean Park Blvd., Suite 112
Santa Monica, CA,90405
Tel: 310-392-7041
Cell: 310-292-1902
www.ConsumerWatchdog.org
john@consumerwatchdog.org

On Nov 13, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Mike Zaneis wrote:

> Jeff,
>  
> Since it has a grand total of 4 weeks since we last discussed this issue, I am going to simply cut and paste the last email chain where I respond to your statement attempting to reopen this issue, by cutting and pasting my response to your previous statement attempting to reopen this statement, which used yet another previous response of mine to your statement attempting to reopen this issue, even after this group, including yourself, had opened and closed the issue on two prior occasions.
>  
> Mike Zaneis
> SVP & General Counsel
> Interactive Advertising Bureau
> (202) 253-1466
>  
> Follow me on Twitter @mikezaneis
>  
> Jeff,
>  
> I really do enjoy revisiting the IE10/browser default/non-compliant DNT signal issue every couple of months because it gives me the opportunity to just recycle my old emails on the subject. Please see my previous email below on the matter, which references your previous agreement that we should not honor default "on" browser settings:
>  
>  
>  
> Jeff,
>  
> I hate to revisit an issue that has been closed at least twice before, the first time being way back in September, but you again raised the browser default setting issue and its place in the W3C standards process - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/tribnation/chi-reporting-privacy-vs-profits-on-internet-browsers-20120726,0,5932169.story.  The story is about the W3C TPE Working Group and how Microsoft has decided to ship IE10 with the DNT flag turned on.  I was extremely disappointed to see your quote that industry would face a “bloody virtual and real-world fight” if we did not honor such a default.  That flies in the face of your statement from last month (see below to refresh your memory).
>  
> I have to question whether you are negotiating at the W3C in good faith.  If the industry is to be attacked and engaged in a bloody fight even if we develop and adopt a W3C standard, then what is the incentive for us to remain at the table?  Can you please clarify your position on this vitally important issue.
>  
> Mike Zaneis
> SVP & General Counsel
> Interactive Advertising Bureau
> (202) 253-1466
>  
> Follow me on Twitter @mikezaneis
>  
>  
> From: Jeffrey Chester [mailto:jeff@democraticmedia.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 5:41 PM
> To: Shane Wiley
> Cc: Roy T. Fielding; Justin Brookman; public-tracking@w3.org
> Subject: Re: ISSUE-4 and clarity regarding browser defaults
>  
> I support what the working group agreed to, with DNT not being shipped as on.  That is part of the set of compromises we have agreed to within the working group.  I was surprised as everyone else with Microsoft's announcement.  I was just responding the tone of some of the comments in the press where various industry players suggest that Microsoft is a digital Benedict Arnold.  That said, we need to conclude this work with agreement on definition for policy.  I still believe there is a win-win here that can be achieved.  If we can all agree on meaningful final policy, it will be the norm which everyone should abide.  
>  
> So to be clear.  I am not trying to undo the agreement and urge us to stay in discussions.  
>  
> But it sounds like there will be a lot of sleeplessness in Seattle!  Those Microsoft people better lock their doors!
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Jeff
>  
>  
>  
> Jeffrey Chester
> Center for Digital Democracy
> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
> Washington, DC 20009
> www.democraticmedia.org
> www.digitalads.org
> 202-986-2220
>  
> On Jun 3, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Shane Wiley wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff,
>  
> I thought we had solved this issue sometime ago at the beginning of the working group:  opt-in vs. opt-out.  By moving the UA to default to DNT:1 without an explicit user action, you’re creating an opt-in world.  I understand you like that end-point, but if you’re unwilling to move back to the originally agreed upon opt-out structure, I suspect industry participants may leave the working group.  A pure opt-in outcome will have devastating impact to the online ecosystem, will prompt many to develop overly inclusive opt-in approaches, and ultimately consumers lose after being barraged with a sea of opt-in requests.  I’m saddened by this sudden 180 on this very key perspective but hopefully saner minds will prevail.
> 
> In my opinion, we need to resolve this fundamentally core issue prior to moving forward on any other issues at the TPWG.  Please let me know if you agree.
>  
> Thank you,
> Shane
>  
>  
> 
> Mike Zaneis
> SVP & General Counsel, IAB
> (202) 253-1466
>  
> 
>  
> On Oct 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, "Jeffrey Chester" <jeff@democraticmedia.org> wrote:
> 
> I have to say I am dismayed that colleagues from the US online marketing community are trying to replace the W3C multistakeholder process with a system devised exclusively by the online ad industry.  As I mentioned during last week's f2f, NGOs and other civil society groups across the Atlantic have criticized the DAA system as inadequate.  Leading computer science and other researchers have also repeatedly shown how lacking and ineffective it is.  Indeed, just two weeks ago in DC I asked Ms. Thomas if there had been any testing done for design and usability of the system--including by independent bodies.  The answer was basically there was no such usability and independent review.  As we all know, the user experience online is tested and  "optimized" to move them through a digital data collection funnel-- in order to achieve the required "conversion."  Until such independent testing of the DAA system to show that it can effectively inform and empower online users about their privacy choices-- in the face of a purposefully powerful and designed interactive experience--the W3C would be remiss adopting it in all or in part.
>  
> In addition, yesterday's announcement by the DAA that it would, in essence, condone a boycott of DNT requests from users relying on the IE browser (or other browsers adopting privacy by design frameworks), suggests there is a political motivation that should be addressed by the group and W3C (inc. Mr. Berners-Lee).  Instead of developing the best technical standard through expert and objective international standards work, we appear to now confront a political agenda designed to maintain the data collection and user targeting status quo.  The W3C needs to do better than be silent about these recent developments.
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Jeffrey Chester
> Center for Digital Democracy
> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
> Washington, DC 20009
> www.democraticmedia.org
> www.digitalads.org
> 202-986-2220
>