- From: Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>
- Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:16:03 -0500
- To: JC Cannon <jccannon@microsoft.com>
- Cc: John Simpson <john@consumerwatchdog.org>, Jonathan Robert Mayer <jmayer@stanford.edu>, Justin Brookman <justin@cdt.org>, "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>
- Message-id: <2564CC3C-11ED-4CA1-A5F0-FDBCE0798358@democraticmedia.org>
Let's have a further discussion on this. Can you say what data can be collected from a user when DNT:1 is on as they access social services? Jeffrey Chester Center for Digital Democracy 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550 Washington, DC 20009 www.democraticmedia.org www.digitalads.org 202-986-2220 On Feb 13, 2012, at 12:09 PM, JC Cannon wrote: > Jeff, > > I disagree with your position, because I would still want that feature if I’m logged in and have DNT:1 enabled. This is part of the concern I have about making decisions for consumers that they may not want. If I can disable the article annotation by logging off from the social site, why bundle it with DNT taking away my flexibility? > > JC > Twitter > > From: Jeffrey Chester [mailto:jeff@democraticmedia.org] > Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 6:46 AM > To: JC Cannon > Cc: John Simpson; Jonathan Robert Mayer; Justin Brookman; public-tracking@w3.org > Subject: Re: ACTION-69: Renaming ISSUE-54 > > JC: > > DNT:1 serves as a form of granular privacy protection. If one has DNT:1 on, they don't want tracking process working--even if it means they can't find out their friends enjoyed reading your latest book! Happy to discuss. > > > I would like to drill into this a little further. How would this apply to a logged in state? If I’m logged into a social site and reading an article I would be interested to know if people I trust from that social site enjoyed the article or not without necessarily letting people know that I viewed the article, unless I select the share button. I don’t want to have to enable tracking just to see if my friends liked the article. > > JC > Twitter > > From: John Simpson [mailto:john@consumerwatchdog.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:53 AM > To: Jeffrey Chester > Cc: Jonathan Robert Mayer; Justin Brookman; public-tracking@w3.org > Subject: Re: ACTION-69: Renaming ISSUE-54 > > I agree that when a site acts as a third party it MUST not engage in targeting based on data gathered when it was a 1st party if DNT is enabled. > > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Jeffrey Chester wrote: > > > > I don't think if DNT is enabled a third party should be able to engage in profile-based targeting that they have collected as first party, as Justin perhaps as proposed. That would weaken user intent on DNT. > > > Jeffrey Chester > Center for Digital Democracy > 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550 > Washington, DC 20009 > www.democraticmedia.org > www.digitalads.org > 202-986-2220 > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:34 AM, Jonathan Robert Mayer wrote: > > > > In the interest of clarity, I recommend we make two ISSUEs from ISSUE-54. > > 1) What can a first party do on its own website with provided information? I completely agree with Shane that this falls into the current first party proposal, and I expect we'll get consensus and close the ISSUE quickly. > > 2) What can a first party do with submitted information when it's a third party? We've already heard a range of views on this; I expect lengthy discussion and perspectives from many stakeholders before we close the ISSUE. > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Justin Brookman <justin@cdt.org> wrote: > > I think Sean's restatement of the issue is a bit ambiguous. The key question is not whether a first party can alter its own websites and advertising on those sites based on data it collected as a first party. It's about whether they can then leverage that data when they're in a third-party environment. > > I was tasked with writing up language on this in Brussels, but upon reflection, my vision is already allowed for in the text: a third-party may customize content or advertising on other sites based on data it had collected as a first-party. Thus, Yahoo! can serve ads on the New York Times based on what I had done on the Yahoo! site (or registration information I had provided to Yahoo!) and Facebook can tell me what my friends like in a social widget when I go to the WashingtonPost.com --- as long as neither collects the fact that I went to NYT or WaPo (apart from exceptions like ad reporting, fraud, analytics) and certainly does not add that information to a profile about me. The language in the draft currently allows for this. However, I will try to put together some non-normative language on this today to make it clear. I have heard the argument that this unduly favors first-party sites who have a lot of user data, but I also think the privacy implications are dramatically reduced when ads are influenced based on data that a party already has about you. > > Shane, you had seemed to disagree with this idea in Brussels, so if you want to put forward a countersuggestion that's fine. Alternatively, Tom had disagreed on one of the calls that Facebook should be allowed to personalize content based on data it had collected as a first-party, so he may want to proffer another suggestion. I could see a stronger argument against allowing Yahoo! to use passively-collected data about what I read on the Yahoo! site rather than using affirmatively provided info, but I personally wouldn't draw the line there. It's also possible this issue is currently being discussed elsewhere on the mailing list, but I have not remotely been able to keep up. > > > Justin Brookman > Director, Consumer Privacy > Center for Democracy & Technology > 1634 I Street NW, Suite 1100 > Washington, DC 20006 > tel 202.407.8812 > fax 202.637.0969 > justin@cdt.org > http://www.cdt.org > @CenDemTech > @JustinBrookman > > On 2/6/2012 10:10 AM, Shane Wiley wrote: > And the proposed answer, “YES”, as this appears to capture the 1st party exception cleanly and we have other statements that disallow a 1st party from sharing information with 3rd parties when DNT:1. > > - Shane > > From: Sean Harvey [mailto:sharvey@google.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 5:27 PM > To: public-tracking@w3.org Group WG > Subject: ACTION-69: Renaming ISSUE-54 > > Hi all, apologies for the delay in submitting my action item. > > ISSUE-54 is intended to get at the question of whether or not a first party is allowed to leverage their own data, including registration data provided by the user at a previous time, in the context of a DNT header being ON. > > Keep in mind I am not intending to provide an answer, only to more appropriately rename the topic. > > In light of this I propose the Issue be renamed: > > "Can first parties customize their own websites or advertising based on their own user data when a DNT header is ON?" > > > > ---------- > John M. Simpson > Consumer Advocate > Consumer Watchdog > 1750 Ocean Park Blvd. ,Suite 200 > Santa Monica, CA,90405 > Tel: 310-392-7041 > Cell: 310-292-1902 > www.ConsumerWatchdog.org > john@consumerwatchdog.org > >
Received on Monday, 13 February 2012 17:17:00 UTC