Re: Issue-17, Issue-51 First party obligations

Thanks, Shane.

On Dec 2, 2011, at 4:06 AM, Shane Wiley wrote:

> John,
>  
> You’ve called out the most essential element of the discussion below – party position is contextual.  In your use case, if you go to flickr.yahoo.com (1st party) and log-in with your Facebook (3rd party in this context) credentials, then only the log-in event would be tracked by Facebook and not your further activities on Flickr (unless you click on a “Facebook Like” button somewhere).
>  
> Hope this is clear.
>  
> - Shane
>  
> From: John Simpson [mailto:john@consumerwatchdog.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 3:06 PM
> To: Shane Wiley
> Cc: Karl Dubost; JC Cannon; <public-tracking@w3.org> (public-tracking@w3.org)
> Subject: Re: Issue-17, Issue-51 First party obligations
>  
> Shane,
>  
> I just want to make sure I understand this. Is the following  your view? 
>  
> I go to the Flickr site.  You would consider Flickr and other Yahoo! sites as 1st party.  Instead of using Yahoo! login, I use "OpenAuth" and use my Facebook password.  Facebook does not become a first party, but remains a 3rd party.  Is that correct?  1st party remains Flickr and co-branded Yahoo! sites, correct?
>  
> Best,
> John
>  
>  
> On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:20 PM, Shane Wiley wrote:
> 
> 
> John,
>  
> The concept of leveraging one account to authentic into another’s service is called “OpenAuth” and is what we were referring to earlier in the thread.  It’s my suggestion that leveraging OpenAuth does NOT allow the authentication party to become a 1st party on a 3rd party site and would still be subject to DNT.  The 3rd party authentication service should be allowed to record the actual authentication event for operational and security purposes, but no further data collection should occur from that point forward.
>  
> - Shane
>  
> From: John Simpson [mailto:john@consumerwatchdog.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:41 PM
> To: John Simpson
> Cc: Shane Wiley; Karl Dubost; JC Cannon; <public-tracking@w3.org> (public-tracking@w3.org)
> Subject: Re: Issue-17, Issue-51 First party obligations
>  
> Shane,
>  
> Apologies.
>  
> I finally visited the Flickr site and confess my failure to understand that it was associated with Yahoo! stems from my abstract and vague knowledge that Flickr is a site that offers the ability to share photos. I had not realized it was acquired by Yahoo!  Once there, it is clearly sponsored by Yahoo!  I was asked to sign in with my Yahoo account or create one.
>  
> But I also had the option to sign in with either a Facebook or Google account.  If I chose to sign in using either of those two accounts, what happens?  Are they now 1st party sites as well?
>  
> Thanks,
> John
>  
>  
> On Nov 30, 2011, at 11:51 AM, John Simpson wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Shane and Karl,
>  
> I certainly agree that user studies are key.  I hope Shane can find a way to share some of his information.
>  
> Best,
> John
>  
> On Nov 30, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Shane Wiley wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Karl,
> 
> I have internal data in this area (user focus groups, community forums, feedback channels from users directly, etc.) but nothing I can share publically.  I agree more research in this area generally will be helpful but for the specific Yahoo! use case I'm confident users understand that Flickr is part of Yahoo!.  Let me look into what I can share externally...
> 
> - Shane
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Dubost [mailto:karld@opera.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:58 AM
> To: Shane Wiley
> Cc: John Simpson; JC Cannon; <public-tracking@w3.org> (public-tracking@w3.org)
> Subject: Re: Issue-17, Issue-51 First party obligations
> 
> 
> Le 30 nov. 2011 à 11:55, Shane Wiley a écrit :
> 
> 
> And you base this belief on.?
> 
> please. this kind of statement goes both ways. :)
> We need user studies to assess that. I said it previously in the thread.
> 
> -- 
> Karl Dubost - http://dev.opera.com/
> Developer Relations & Tools, Opera Software
> 
>  
> ----------
> John M. Simpson
> Consumer Advocate
> Consumer Watchdog
> 1750 Ocean Park Blvd. ,Suite 200
> Santa Monica, CA,90405
> Tel: 310-392-7041
> Cell: 310-292-1902
> www.ConsumerWatchdog.org
> john@consumerwatchdog.org
>  
>  
> ----------
> John M. Simpson
> Consumer Advocate
> Consumer Watchdog
> 1750 Ocean Park Blvd. ,Suite 200
> Santa Monica, CA,90405
> Tel: 310-392-7041
> Cell: 310-292-1902
> www.ConsumerWatchdog.org
> john@consumerwatchdog.org
>  
>  
> ----------
> John M. Simpson
> Consumer Advocate
> Consumer Watchdog
> 1750 Ocean Park Blvd. ,Suite 200
> Santa Monica, CA,90405
> Tel: 310-392-7041
> Cell: 310-292-1902
> www.ConsumerWatchdog.org
> john@consumerwatchdog.org
>  

----------
John M. Simpson
Consumer Advocate
Consumer Watchdog
1750 Ocean Park Blvd. ,Suite 200
Santa Monica, CA,90405
Tel: 310-392-7041
Cell: 310-292-1902
www.ConsumerWatchdog.org
john@consumerwatchdog.org