- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
- Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:15:38 +0100
- To: public-talent-signal@w3.org
- Message-ID: <0d168f68-b6d6-f99f-c997-773f40d1b2a7@pjjk.co.uk>
It has been useful to mark an area of the domain with "here be dragons" so that we know not to stray too far into it when addressing other issues. -- Phil On 20/08/2019 16:05, Stuart Sutton wrote: > :-) Jason, it was just a question as to immediate relevance. It could > be relevant to what's lined up in our wiki queue and I may not see it. > Known to happen. > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:02 AM Tyszko, Jason <jtyszko@uschamber.com > <mailto:jtyszko@uschamber.com>> wrote: > > The charter of the group would suggest this is the appropriate > forum, though it may not be the appropriate time. We can parking > lot this conversation for later once we get the job descriptions > and posting piece right. > > Jason > > *From:*Stuart Sutton <stuartasutton@gmail.com > <mailto:stuartasutton@gmail.com>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 20, 2019 11:00 AM > *To:* Nadeau, Gregory <gnadeau@pcgus.com <mailto:gnadeau@pcgus.com>> > *Cc:* Alex Jackl <alex@bardicsystems.com > <mailto:alex@bardicsystems.com>>; Tyszko, Jason > <jtyszko@USChamber.com>; Merrilea Mayo <merrileamayo@gmail.com > <mailto:merrileamayo@gmail.com>>; Julie Uranis <juranis@upcea.edu > <mailto:juranis@upcea.edu>>; public-talent-signal@w3.org > <mailto:public-talent-signal@w3.org> > *Subject:* Re: Domain sketch > > Personally, I think we should evaluate whether this discussion and > the analysis at this level is actually appropriate for the work at > hand. I am not questioning its significance in the greater scheme > of things. I am questioning whether this is the right forum. These > modeling issues have been the fodder of people who have thought > long (decades) and hard (with great > commitment/entrenchment/dissertations) and still can join up at > the bar and talk/argue for hours on end. > > So, does this conversation help us here; and, if so, how? If not, > where can people go to have at it? > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 7:47 AM Nadeau, Gregory <gnadeau@pcgus.com > <mailto:gnadeau@pcgus.com>> wrote: > > I believe that this conversation is suffering from semantic > disconnect. > > It we take the labels off and think just in terms of > information architecture, I assert that there are two main > object types: > > 1. the generic thing that can achieved by more than one person > 2. the specific instance with information about the learner, > issuer, etc > > These two things are modelled quite differently. Once we > agree on that, we can talk about best terms and alternative > labels. > > Is there an additional hard line, logical, structural > difference on the credential to competency spectrum? > > g. > > *From:* Alex Jackl <alex@bardicsystems.com > <mailto:alex@bardicsystems.com>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 20, 2019 10:34 AM > *To:* Tyszko, Jason <jtyszko@uschamber.com > <mailto:jtyszko@uschamber.com>> > *Cc:* Merrilea Mayo <merrileamayo@gmail.com > <mailto:merrileamayo@gmail.com>>; Julie Uranis > <juranis@upcea.edu <mailto:juranis@upcea.edu>>; > public-talent-signal@w3.org <mailto:public-talent-signal@w3.org> > *Subject:* Re: Domain sketch > > Actually I want to be very clear. I am asserting the > opposite of what you are saying. I am saying competencies and > credentials need to be kept cleanly separate,. > > All I am saying is that there a large, formal, highly accepted > credentials (PhD from MIT in Information System Design) and > small, tiny,niche credentials (badge for attending /Alex > Jackl's Data Emporium Seminar/) and everything in between. > > The credential represents the assertion of a competency or > competencies using some assessment (whether by test or > observation or seat time or or or) form a particular > organization. > > What I believe both Merrilea and myself are asserting is the > example you gave IS a credential/achievement assertion just > of a smaller scope and different type. > > > *** > > Alexander Jackl > > CEO & President, Bardic Systems, Inc. > > alex@bardicsystems.com <mailto:alex@bardicsystems.com> > > M: 508.395.2836 > > F: 617.812.6020 > > http://bardicsystems.com > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbardicsystems.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=B1rHMoNccoiqdgf7B7%2BRWRSAV9C3SBqaJEiZR7xkFLs%3D&reserved=0> > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 10:26 AM Tyszko, Jason > <jtyszko@uschamber.com <mailto:jtyszko@uschamber.com>> wrote: > > Admittedly I’m seeing this more from the policy lens. > Perhaps this is just a semantic issue when it comes to > organizing and structuring data. However, to suggest a > competency is a mini-credential would have large policy > implications that we would find problematic at the > Chamber. It could also inhibit some of the most important > innovations coming out of the competency movement. > > You mentioned Credential Engine, and I can see why they > might frame competencies from the vantage point of > credentials given their mission and scope, but I think > there are other points of view about what competencies > are, how they are issued, and how they are asserted. To > suggest they are mini-credentials I fear would pose > limitations on them or render them indistinguishable from > credentials. Currently, the T3 Innovation Network is > exploring how to support a distributed competency data > exchange supported by data standards and AI and ML tools, > which is fundamentally different than how you organize and > share information about credentials. > > Again, I may be approaching this from the wrong point of > view, and I’m learning a lot based on this conversation. > I’m not suggesting my point of view is the right one, > either. Thinking it through as we go. It just seems like > this is a critically important decision point that we > might benefit from spending more time on and bringing in > more expert points of view, particularly leaders in the > competency movement. > > Jason > > *From:* Merrilea Mayo <merrileamayo@gmail.com > <mailto:merrileamayo@gmail.com>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 20, 2019 10:09 AM > *To:* Julie Uranis <juranis@upcea.edu > <mailto:juranis@upcea.edu>> > *Cc:* Tyszko, Jason <jtyszko@USChamber.com > <mailto:jtyszko@USChamber.com>>; > public-talent-signal@w3.org > <mailto:public-talent-signal@w3.org> > *Subject:* Re: Domain sketch > > The way I see it, once an Educational Organization > formally endows someone with a "competency," they've just > issued him a credential, just a smaller scale one. I see > the difference between competency and credential as being > the difference between a "course description" and "passing > the course (or required set of courses, if a degree), > which fact is now formally recorded and stored." > > Credentials go beyond degrees to include certifications, > nanodegrees, microcredentials and - where we're headed - > certified competencies. This concept of credential was > something Credential Engine taught me. It is very useful > and cuts cleanly through a lot of issues surrounding the > proliferation of not-quite-degrees. The confusion comes > because the term "credential" is used so loosely in other, > non-technical, non data contexts. In some of these places > "credential" is often used mean JUST a conventional degree. > > Merrilea > > (tiny keyboard, pls excuse typos) > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:24 PM Julie Uranis > <juranis@upcea.edu <mailto:juranis@upcea.edu>> wrote: > > Hi everyone- > > I’ve been lurking but Jason’s email inspired me to > chime in. I’m +1’ing his comment, that is if his > interpretation of “A credential can be offered by an > EducationalOrganization but a competency cannot be” is > accurate. I share his concern with this statement. > > EducationalOrganization must be able to offer both > credentials and competencies understanding that they > can be of same class. To echo and append Jason, this > is both the way the field is moving and is a reality > for the millions of students that leave higher > education without credentials but with competencies. > Being inclusive of these conditions would fit with > known use cases and student characteristics. > > To pull in your last email, “Organizations can offer > assessments that assess competencies, and if passed > lead to the award of credentials.” I think we need to > parse this a bit more. Organizations can offer > assessments that assess competencies that may or may > not lead to a credential – and the student may never > complete the full credential, so the credential needs > to be recognized as an item unto itself. > > If this interpretation is wrong and my email unhelpful > I’m happy to return to my lurker status. J > > Julie > > *From:* Tyszko, Jason [mailto:jtyszko@USChamber.com > <mailto:jtyszko@USChamber.com>] > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2019 2:02 PM > *To:* public-talent-signal@w3.org > <mailto:public-talent-signal@w3.org> > *Subject:* RE: Domain sketch > > Phil, > > I’m coming in late to the conversation, and I’m > probably not understanding that context, but I thought > I would chime in anyway, just in case. The statement > below caught my attention: > > A credential can be offered by an > EducationalOrganization but a competency cannot be. > > Are we suggesting that, per the way schemas are > currently setup, an EducationalOrganization cannot > offer competencies in lieu of credentials? If so, > that strikes me as potentially limiting and not > necessarily reflective of where the field is going. > > In T3 and in our other work, employers, for instance, > are increasingly interested in competency-based hiring > outside of credentialing. Competencies are > increasingly needed to stand alone so employer, > education providers, workforce trainers, and others, > can offer competencies as part of a learner or worker > record. This is also consistent with where the > university registrars are going in the U.S. From > where the Chamber stands, credentials can include > competencies, but competencies are not exclusively > found in a credential. > > Not sure if my comments add value given where the > conversation was going, but in order for us to support > innovations in the talent marketplace, we need a data > infrastructure that makes this distinction clear. > Happy to walk this back if I’m off track. > > Jason > > *From:* Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk > <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2019 1:44 PM > *To:* public-talent-signal@w3.org > <mailto:public-talent-signal@w3.org> > *Subject:* Re: Domain sketch > > On 19/08/2019 18:19, Nadeau, Gregory wrote: > > My understanding of CTDL is that it only models > Credentials as Achievement Descriptions, and does > not include models for PII Assertion Records. > > True, but the addition of hasCredential > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fschema.org%2FhasCredential&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=o8lt44%2FF4s7ITOfz4gpHelbpW2UbN0%2FS%2FuS1SlBcQWk%3D&reserved=0> > as a property of Person in schema.org > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=tCYuDCI99sBMfA%2BZocd2UgZU9M3t3a6KNOeCzemV9M0%3D&reserved=0> > is a significant change from that. > > While a relativist view could assert that the > any distinction could be semantic and change in > context, I continue to assert that there is a hard > logical distinction between Achievement and Assertion, > > True, but they can be modeled with similar terms. > There is a hard logical distinction between a Person > and a Book, but they both have a name. There is a > logical distinction between a TextBook and a Course, > but many of their properties and attributes are the > same. Achievement and Assertion can be modeled as > different profiles drawn from the same term set. > > but not between Competency and Credential. > > While it is true that Credentials can have > Competencies, they are in fact the same class of > entity and often have recursive associations > between them. > > With the simple distinction that a credential can > require a competency but a competency cannot require a > credential. > > A credential can be offered by an > EducationalOrganization but a competency cannot be. > > Outside of learner records, credentials and > competencies are quite different. > > Phil > > In short: > > Achievement Description types include Credentials, > Competencies, Skills. While historically > different in some contexts, increasingly these > terms are blurred and there is no > logical/structural difference between them. > > Achievement Assertions can refer to Achievement > Descriptions and include specific PII information > about the Learner and Issuer, and can include > specific instance information like Evidence, > Endorsement, Result, and Verification. > > Greg Nadeau > > Chair, IMS Global CLR > > Chair, IEEE CM4LTS > > *From:* Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> > <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> > *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2019 12:59 PM > *To:* public-talent-signal@w3.org > <mailto:public-talent-signal@w3.org> > *Subject:* Re: Domain sketch > > I agree mostly with Alex (and Stuart's reply). I > want to add some consideration of context into the > mix and think about reuse of terms in different > contexts (which is how schema.org > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=tCYuDCI99sBMfA%2BZocd2UgZU9M3t3a6KNOeCzemV9M0%3D&reserved=0> > works). > > In short, I think the distinction between > assertions and descriptions comes from putting > circles around different parts of the domain > sketch (different profiles of the same set of > terms, if you prefer). This is part of what I mean > when I say that it is not a domain model because > there are different perspectives on it. I think > what Alex describes is one (valid) set of > perspectives. > > In achievement descriptions, competency is > separated from credential in most of the work that > we are following (CTDL, OpenBadges BadgeClass, > ESCO etc.), and it needs to be. When describing an > EducationalOccupationalCredential you need to be > able to say what competencies are being > credentialed. That's why the competencyRequired > property of EducationalOccupationalCredential got > into schema.org > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=tCYuDCI99sBMfA%2BZocd2UgZU9M3t3a6KNOeCzemV9M0%3D&reserved=0>. > > It's also useful to separate competencies from > credentials when describing learning resources. > Then it is necessary to be able to show an > alignment to a learning objective (i.e. a > competence) separately from credentials, in order > to promote reuse in different contexts. > > But in other contexts the schema.org > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=tCYuDCI99sBMfA%2BZocd2UgZU9M3t3a6KNOeCzemV9M0%3D&reserved=0> > classes can be used as part of an assertion. I > don't think anyone is doing this in schema.org > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=tCYuDCI99sBMfA%2BZocd2UgZU9M3t3a6KNOeCzemV9M0%3D&reserved=0>, > but if I were to write, as part of a JSON-LD CV > (and I'm making up a couple of properties): > > { > > "@id":"http://people.pjjk.net/phil#id" <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.pjjk.net%2Fphil%23id&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=KrVZdI3dKYOKTIEVuCVvCucH6tvz48tzwtjSUZ6CX7c%3D&reserved=0>, > > "hasCredential": { > > "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential", > > "name": "PhD in Physics", > > "issuedBy":"https://www.bristol.ac.uk/" <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bristol.ac.uk%2F&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=yGN4zBw3u73kr%2Fm%2BFv0kWJyPGyw%2BAvoutw3xrRWHV7o%3D&reserved=0>, > > }, > > "hasSkill": "Educational metadata modeling" //a literal representing a competence, could be DefinedTerm > > } > > then I am making achievement assertions. (And in > order to make these assertions verifiable you > would have to wrap them up into some collection of > assertions and provide the means of verification.) > > I agree with Alex that > > Once you have a record that matches a person > with a "competency" or "achievement > description", and "evidence" or "assertion" > from an "approved" organization that that > person has either passed an assessment or done > something that shows that... you have an > "achievement assertion" > > But not with > > or "credential". > > As Stuart says, to date in schema.org > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=tCYuDCI99sBMfA%2BZocd2UgZU9M3t3a6KNOeCzemV9M0%3D&reserved=0> > the EducationalOccupationalCredential class has > been used to represent a credential offered > (something that "may be awarded") in the sense of > being the thing that the University of Bristol > says I can sign up to if I want to study for a PhD > in physics, not the specific PhD that I hold. So > this is an example of a > EducationalOccupationalCredential that is not an > achievement assertion: > > { > > "@type": "EducationalOccupationalProgram", > > "url":"http://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/2019/sci/phd-physics/" <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bristol.ac.uk%2Fstudy%2Fpostgraduate%2F2019%2Fsci%2Fphd-physics%2F&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=RWPLlK%2FVZTAV8lCyIImUhOqJ%2FyPEhiZz6i1XJfOyJc0%3D&reserved=0> > > "educationalCredentialAwarded": { > > "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential", > > "name": "PhD in Physics" > > } > > } > > Phil > > On 19/08/2019 16:36, Alex Jackl wrote: > > I agree with Greg that the distinction between > the "achievement description" and the > "achievement assertion" is critical, but in > this case I think we are once again running > aground on the semantic reefs. > > If we think of an "achievement description" as > a description of a Knowledge, Skill, Aptitude, > or Experience (either inside of some taxonomy > or not) then it matches cleanly what most > people mean by competency. > > It typically does not include the assessment > or test that would "prove" "provide evidence" > that that competency exists with some person. > That matches with what people usually refer to > as an "assessment" or "evidence". > > Once you have a record that matches a person > with a "competency" or "achievement > description", and "evidence" or "assertion" > from an "approved" organization that that > person has either passed an assessment or done > something that shows that... you have an > "achievement assertion" or "credential". > > I think it is that simple. :-) Now - I > know each of these categories have hierarchies > and taxonomies and differing levels of > granularity and different ways t o represent > an assessment or organizations > trustworthiness or authority, but this model > can be represented by what Phil is describing. > > What am I missing? I see no issue with the > following semantic equivalences: > > competency <-> achievement description > > assessment <-> evidence (I understand that not > all evidence takes the form of a "test" but > you are assessing somehow!) > > credential <-> achievement assertion > > *** > > Alexander Jackl > > CEO & President, Bardic Systems, Inc. > > alex@bardicsystems.com > <mailto:alex@bardicsystems.com> > > M: 508.395.2836 > > F: 617.812.6020 > > http://bardicsystems.com > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbardicsystems.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=B1rHMoNccoiqdgf7B7%2BRWRSAV9C3SBqaJEiZR7xkFLs%3D&reserved=0> > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 11:20 AM Nadeau, > Gregory <gnadeau@pcgus.com > <mailto:gnadeau@pcgus.com>> wrote: > > Friends, > > I challenge the aspect of the model that > separates a competency from credential. I > believe that both credentials as expressed > by CTDL and competencies as CASE (as well > as badges and micro-credentials) are all > overlapping labels and structures for > expressing the general Achievement > Description. Degree, credential, > micro-credential, badge, skill, knowledge, > ability, course objective, academic > standard, and learning target are all > labels for this concept without accepted > boundaries between them and distinctions. > The more important distinction from an > information architecture standpoint is > separation of the general, linked-data > public Achievement Description from the > Achievement Assertion that contains PII > data about the Learner: > > ** > > > > > *Greg Nadeau > *Manager > > 781-370-1017 > > gnadeau@pcgus.com <mailto:gnadeau@pcgus.com> > > publicconsultinggroup.com > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpublicconsultinggroup.com&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=3ViA9OaPBH9TTvzJRyAB%2BAUoDq6kkhU11QQMIiAqaAo%3D&reserved=0> > > > ** > > This message (including any attachments) > contains confidential information intended > for a specific individual and purpose and > is protected by law. If you are not the > intended recipient, you should delete this > message and are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, or distribution of > this message, or the taking of any action > based on it, is strictly prohibited. > > *From:* Phil Barker > <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk > <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:03 AM > *To:* public-talent-signal@w3.org > <mailto:public-talent-signal@w3.org> > *Subject:* Domain sketch > > Hello all, I got a little feedback about > the domain sketch that I've shown a couple > of times, and have altered it accordingly, > and tried to clarify what is and isn't > currently in schema.org > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fschema.org&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=tCYuDCI99sBMfA%2BZocd2UgZU9M3t3a6KNOeCzemV9M0%3D&reserved=0>. > > > Here it is again. I'm thinking about > putting it on the wiki, and hoping that, > along with the issue list > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fcommunity%2Ftalent-signal%2Fwiki%2FIssues%2C_use_cases_and_requirements%23Issues_open_for_consideration&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=%2Bs8QGt5sPgc7WesNBw7dNVoO5e4XGw4oF7nhwlfkvcA%3D&reserved=0>, > it might serve as a useful way of > introducing what we are about and what we > are doing. > > I really want to stress that it is not > intended to be a complete or formal domain > model, nor is it intended to be > prescriptive. (I think that for a domain > as big as this, with so many possible > perspectives, it is premature to try to > get consensus on a complete formal model > now, if indeed that will ever be possible.) > > I would welcome feedback on whether this > sketch helps, and how it might be > improved, what needs further explanation, > or anything else. > > Regards, Phil > > -- > > Phil Barker > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.pjjk.net%2Fphil&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=yvkgq14%2FOgrGtz2C9niPZNcDvydeF8cmwQhn%2BDSKyIE%3D&reserved=0>. > http://people.pjjk.net/phil > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.pjjk.net%2Fphil&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=yvkgq14%2FOgrGtz2C9niPZNcDvydeF8cmwQhn%2BDSKyIE%3D&reserved=0> > CETIS LLP > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cetis.org.uk&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=wQ9Vyz%2Fg3zfutmF9CVfOAu%2Bk1r8tZ2g5VHxnImBiTQM%3D&reserved=0>: > a cooperative consultancy for innovation > in education technology. > PJJK Limited > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pjjk.co.uk&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=7%2BfUa5Z%2B%2Fp6fja2VyzLJRPo1%2FUa48X6cTmF%2FLmJwIAU%3D&reserved=0>: > technology to enhance learning; > information systems for education. > > CETIS is a co-operative limited liability > partnership, registered in England number > OC399090 > PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as > a private limited company, number SC569282. > > -- > > Phil Barker > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.pjjk.net%2Fphil&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=yvkgq14%2FOgrGtz2C9niPZNcDvydeF8cmwQhn%2BDSKyIE%3D&reserved=0>. > http://people.pjjk.net/phil > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.pjjk.net%2Fphil&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=yvkgq14%2FOgrGtz2C9niPZNcDvydeF8cmwQhn%2BDSKyIE%3D&reserved=0> > CETIS LLP > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cetis.org.uk&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=wQ9Vyz%2Fg3zfutmF9CVfOAu%2Bk1r8tZ2g5VHxnImBiTQM%3D&reserved=0>: > a cooperative consultancy for innovation in > education technology. > PJJK Limited > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pjjk.co.uk&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=7%2BfUa5Z%2B%2Fp6fja2VyzLJRPo1%2FUa48X6cTmF%2FLmJwIAU%3D&reserved=0>: > technology to enhance learning; information > systems for education. > > CETIS is a co-operative limited liability > partnership, registered in England number OC399090 > PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a > private limited company, number SC569282. > > -- > > Phil Barker > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.pjjk.net%2Fphil&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=yvkgq14%2FOgrGtz2C9niPZNcDvydeF8cmwQhn%2BDSKyIE%3D&reserved=0>. > http://people.pjjk.net/phil > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.pjjk.net%2Fphil&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=yvkgq14%2FOgrGtz2C9niPZNcDvydeF8cmwQhn%2BDSKyIE%3D&reserved=0> > CETIS LLP > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cetis.org.uk&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=wQ9Vyz%2Fg3zfutmF9CVfOAu%2Bk1r8tZ2g5VHxnImBiTQM%3D&reserved=0>: > a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education > technology. > PJJK Limited > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pjjk.co.uk&data=01%7C01%7CGNADEAU%40PCGUS.COM%7C177314bb748247517c3e08d7257b9d43%7Cd9b110c34c254379b97ae248938cc17b%7C0&sdata=7%2BfUa5Z%2B%2Fp6fja2VyzLJRPo1%2FUa48X6cTmF%2FLmJwIAU%3D&reserved=0>: > technology to enhance learning; information systems > for education. > > CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, > registered in England number OC399090 > PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private > limited company, number SC569282. > -- Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil CETIS LLP <https://www.cetis.org.uk>: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology. PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning; information systems for education. CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in England number OC399090 PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, number SC569282.
Received on Tuesday, 20 August 2019 15:16:05 UTC