- From: Michael Kifer <kifer@cs.sunysb.edu>
- Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:34:02 -0500
- To: Steve Ross-Talbot <steve@enigmatec.net>
- Cc: public-sws-ig@w3.org
Hi Steve, We do keep an eye on WS-CHOR and would certainly like to coordinate our work with yours. regards --michael > Dear all, > > given the minutes below and the discussion topic of finite state > machines and conversations and should we store the behavioural > footprint it seems very sensible for you folks to track us folks (we > obviously track you). The WS-CHOR group has taken a behaviouralist > approach to the description of the external observable behaviour of > participating web services. We have recently had Prof Robin Milner and > Dr. Nobuku Yoshida and Dr. Kohei Honda join our group. These esteemed > academics represent some of the very top people in process algebra > (Robin invented pi-calculus). They are working with us on modeling some > of the use cases formally so that we can understand better the > requirements and the direction we need to go it to produce a > Choreography Description Language (CDL). We already have a model > overview of the CDL on our web page. > > We would welcome some cross fertilization. We shall be at the plenary > and our F2F is the Mon/Tue of that week. > > Best Regards > > Steve Ross-Talbot > Chief Scientist, Enigmatec Corporation > co-chair W3C Web Services Choreography > chair W3C Web Services > > > O: +44 207 397 8207 > C: +44 7855 268 848 > www.enigmatec.net > > > On 24 Feb 2004, at 02:54, Terry Payne wrote: > > > > > [Note - these are past minutes from recent SWSL telecons] > > > > ============================================= > > Minutes SWSL telecon - 21st January, 2004 #37 > > ============================================= > > > > Participants: > > David Martin > > Michael Keifer > > Terry Payne (& Roxana Belecheanu) > > Bijan Parsia > > Rick Hull > > Daniela Bernardi > > Steve Battle > > > > > > Notetaker: TP > > Next: TP > > > > Action Items > > ------------ > > 1) Steve Battle - make a proposal for a new version of the general > > requirement including objective of using OWL-S as a starting point (see > > below). > > > > 2) Look at the Service Oriented Model as proposed by Web Services > > Architecture Group; each subgroup should identify where they fit and > > provide more details. > > See http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-ws-arch-20030808/ > > > > Minutes > > ------- > > Item 1: Date for next F2F > > > > MK: Rick Hull offered to host at Bell labs. > > RH: Can reserve hotel rooms - aprox 25 people? > > DM: Rick sent a message to Admin list proposing to host at Bell Labs, > > however details need to be confirmed asap. > > NOTE - MK didn't receive this message > > - check that messages are being received... > > > > MK: Any idea whether DAML-PI will be before or after? > > DM: They are thinking of holding DAML-PI after, either Mon-Wed > > or Tues-Thu > > MK: 22-23 or 23-24 would be good (the latter is better). Is the 22nd a > > developers day??? If DAML is held on the 25-27th then that would be > > good > > > > TP: My preference would be to hold meeting before WWW > > > > DM: any preference on ordering? > > ... F2F before WWW? > > > > DM: If DAML in Manhattan, then F2F shouldn't be sandwiched in between. > > > > Item 2: Minutes > > > > MK will post Minutes to the interest group in the coming days. > > > > Item 3: Steve's Comments on Requirements > > > > SB: Process Modelling appears to be focussed on workflow, whereas > > DAML-S > > has focus on "conversations". Process Model can be described as a > > finite > > state machine. Define a set of behavioural constraints. > > MK: Workflows can be non-deterministic etc > > SB: True - conversations are weaker... > > RH: Similar to FSA and behavioural signatures - declarative > > specification > > (sometimes abstract) but internal details hidden). I have a colleague > > who > > is looking at guarded specifications - Mentor system (Gerhard's group). > > RH: The workflow describes what is behind the scenes > > RH: Behavioural Signatures - should they be in the profile? Can also > > help with modelling and composition. > > MK: Yeah - behavioural signatures are part of the process > > SB: OWL-S describes behavioural signatures! > > RH: Mebbie we should simplify the notion of this for the novice reader > > RH: e.g. temporal constraints vs behavioural signatures, and then > > there is > > mentor - state chart base vs work flow base > > SB: Work needs to be done to see if State Chart Base and Work Flow Base > > can share semantics or not? > > MK: Some (or all) conversations can be modeled as workflows > > SB: have sent a link > > http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2003/HPL-2003-208.html > > Add to the requirements that we should cover this view. > > MK: So we add this as well as a use case > > RH: This would be a good thing! > > MK: Contact Michael G about this - send to mailing list > > SB: A second point - What is the relationship to OWL-S? > > SB: We view that OWL-S semantics should be a starting point (and > > clarify > > semantics) - again should be explicitly stated > > MK: Have agreed to identify the gaps between requirements and OWL-S and > > use OWL-S as a starting point to reach our requirements. > > SB: Should be a non functional requirement (explicit) in Section 2 - > > general requirements. Point 3 General requirement should be > > relabelled as "Non-Functional" requirements. > > RH: This was for general points that do not fit the other sections. > > SB: I think of general requirements as non-functional requirements. > > DM: That notion hasn't been used consistently so far... > > SB: that distinction is used in industry > > MK: I view this more as a call to action rather than a requirement > > SB: I just suggest that we should use OWL-S as a starting point. > > RH: Requirements are a reflection of all the action points :) > > would want SWSL to be an extension of OWL-S > > MK: Yes but would want to go further than this... > > MK: Would like people to volunteer to do different parts of the > > requirements. An action item is for people to take responsibility of > > finding gaps between functional requirements and OWL-S. E.G. to see > > where > > it fall short of our requirements. > > SB: Needs to be a requirement to be done > > BP: There is a difference between taking OWL-S as a starting point or a > > foundation... > > SB: Where possible use the existing lang as is. > > TP: Want to push OWL-S out and standardised... > > MK: That is in the mission statement, right? > > BP: Is OWL-S a good fit for certain things for what people want? > > TP: We're not going to get a 100% solution out soon though > > MK: OWL-S is insufficient, for example in defining the full semantics > > of > > matchmaking. > > Also look at complete examples that cannot be modelled - see example in > > F2F and last summer. How do you represent other issues > > BP: Could you repost the example? > > MK: Soon, when mail issues are sorted. > > BP: OWL-S should consider this as a group. > > ALL: Agreed :) > > > > SB: Could what we produce be seen as OWL-S2.0 - there would be some > > lineage here... > > BP: What counts as sufficiently similar? > > SB: Can you trace the lineage back? > > TP: Will there be a departure though from OWL? > > MK: Probably to actually progress. May stay here at syntax, but > > modelling > > semantics will probably move on. Different World views (DB people vs > > Logicians) > > > > BP: OWL-Rules will not support non-monotonic reasoning. > > MK: OWL does not support reasoning patterns that we might use. > > Need defaults, for example... > > > > MK: extending OWL-S should be an objective rather than a requirement > > DM: lets make this an objective in the requirements doc. View it as a > > starting point and move on. > > MK: State this as a functional requirement in the intro. > > Non-functional > > requirement... > > BP: But how is this a requirement? > > DM: a starting point and an objective is for future work to be based on > > OWL-S > > MK: in the introduction > > DM: agreed > > SB: in the general requirement > > BP: in the introduction > > SB: if in the into then it is not a requirement... > > BP: its only an objective anyway!!! > > MK: Steve - make a proposal for a new version of the general > > requirement > > including this. [ACTION ITEM - Steve Battle] > > > > MK: action item to complete the conceptual model by the end of the > > month. > > essentially an ER diagram. > > W3 Architecture group have come up with a diagram that looks relevant > > but > > not fully detailed. > > Each of the subgroups should come up with a diagram for their > > requirements. > > Need to look at the architecture document at the SWSA site. > > MK: David mailed this out in the past couple of days. The link is in > > the > > agenda [http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-ws-arch-20030808/] > > MK: Some of the requirements should come from the arch-committee. > > Even though this model may change when the arch-committee finalise > > their > > requirements. W3C Arch diagram is good to identify actors - again sent > > by David. Seems to be relevant to our conceptual model > > > > Look at the Service Oriented Model and expand [ACTION ITEM FOR ALL] > > Each subgroup should identify where they fit and provide more details. > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Terry R. Payne, PhD. | http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~trp/index.html > > University of Southampton | Voice: +44(0)23 8059 8343 [Fax: 8059 2865] > > Southampton, SO17 1BJ, UK | Email: terry@acm.org / trp@ecs.soton.ac.uk > > > >
Received on Tuesday, 2 March 2004 16:34:13 UTC