- From: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>
- Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:33:51 -0400
- To: Marcus Rohrmoser <me+swicg@mro.name>
- Cc: public-swicg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAA1s49VjFJTVAXwtOK4N3pNsc=2Uq63HOV00eANyciCaOGLF7g@mail.gmail.com>
Marcus, I'm somewhat perplexed by your concerns about Websockets. There are many examples of systems that have found WebSockets to be useful. For instance: Nostr relies heavily on WebSockets and the folk who are implementing the many Nostr clients and relays don't seem to be particularly concerned either with scaling issues or with any "complexity" due to WebSockets use. In fact, when compared to ActivityPub, Nostr is simple <https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/01.md> to the point of being trivial. It isn't much more than a pure PubSub protocol (e.g. very much like WebSub <https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/>). Nostr's usage seems to be growing -- if their published usage statistics <https://stats.nostr.band/> are to be trusted. You asked that I elaborate on: "small nodes would be better served by seeking to ensure that small nodes provide distinct value" What I'm suggesting is that since large nodes already exist, and since the presence of large nodes leads almost inevitably to concerns about "embrace and capture," if we truly wish to preserve an important role for small nodes, we should be trying to clearly articulate and demonstrate the concrete end-user benefits that small nodes provide. If such benefits cannot be demonstrated, there will be no motivation for users to prefer small over large nodes. Thus, any federation that exists will, over time, be seen to do little more than provide unnecessary, unproductive friction. Over time, sources of friction are removed. If the only argument for small nodes is that they prevent the largely theoretical problems that arise with large nodes, then I fear that most people's response will be similar to that of those who heard, during the 1930's or earlier, that continued use of fossil fuels would one day present a challenge for our climate. The almost universal response was: "Fascinating issue. We'll worry about it when it happens..." You suggest that Meta, etc. "are not social today and won't be tomorrow. Be it with our help or without." Well, quite literally *billions* of people consider them to be "social" applications today, whether or not they support anything that one might consider to be a SocialWeb protocol. Arguing fine theoretical definitions of what is or is not social is of limited utility. The reality is that Meta/Facebook, and other large "social" apps, could choose to embrace and capture the social web at any time. Just as AOL's unleashing of its hordes of users onto the Internet had a massive impact back in the 1990's, if Facebook or Twitter were to connect to the Fediverse today, the impact would be dramatic and lasting. Some may argue that their own instances would block users from mega-nodes, but the reality is that a probably larger number of instance operators would find it in their users' interest to allow connecting with those who primarily used Facebook or Twitter as their primary interfaces. bob wyman
Received on Sunday, 23 April 2023 20:34:10 UTC