- From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:21:46 -0400
- To: public-swd-wg@w3.org, public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
The minutes [1] of today's RDFa telecon are ready for review,
Thanks, Manu, for scribing.
[1] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html
Text snapshot follows:
----
RDF in XHTML TaskForce
03 Jul 2008
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Jul/0000.html
See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2008-06-26
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-irc
[4] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html
Attendees
Present
Manu Sporny, Michael Hausenblas, Steven Pemberton, Shane
McCarron, Ralph Swick, Ben Adida
Regrets
Mark Birbeck
Chair
Ben
Scribe
Manu
Contents
* Topics
1. Action Items
2. State of CR, Implementations, Review of Process.
3. RDFa Tools & Examples
* Summary of Action Items
_____________________________________________________
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MICHAEL !
:)
,,,,,
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{~*~*~*~}
__{*~*~*~*}__
`-------------`
<mhausenblas> ta Manu :)
<mhausenblas> I'd like to shortly talk about the Primer re 'link to
full example'
<mhausenblas> [10]Full example from RDFa Primer
[10] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/alice-example.html
<mhausenblas> Ben, just pointed out the Primer full example stuff
<markbirbeck> I've just emailed my apologies. :(
<markbirbeck> Will stay on IRC, though.
<markbirbeck> Happy birthday Michael! :)
<mhausenblas> [11]primer/alice-example.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/alice-example.html
Action Items
ACTION: [DONE] Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki
[recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[12] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10
Manu:the wiki doesn't allow you to edit until you verify your email
address
ShaneM: That's correct.
ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
[CONTINUES]
[13] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
[CONTINUES]
[14] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
Ben: You should coordinate with Digg folks to see if you can come up
with a vocab term for community rating.
... if they agree on that, then we can write a cool searchmonkey
addition based on that.
Ben: Either find the right one or pick a new one.
Michael: Yes, one kinda exists... check [15]talis.com page first.
[15] http://danja.talis.com/xmlns/rev_2007-11-09/index.html
Steven: wanted to talk about vocabularies for a bit.
... got a comment about vevent blog post I did.
Michael: It was Yves, right?
Steven: yes, my question is I'm assuming that we want some standard
vocabularies.
... Using location for a TV channel?
... So VCARD location for a TV program should be in the LOCATION
field?
ShaneM: What's the datatype for location?
Steven: It's string.
ShaneM: If it's a string, do whatever you want, right?
Ralph: don't think that represents the designer's intent
Steven: You don't quite have the right semantics if you go that
route.
Manu:one option that has been used is to permit either a string or a
typed value
Michael: I know Yves, we could talk with him a bit?
Ben: It would be good to continue discussion with Yves.
... These discussions tend to be very long, because we're talking
about vocabularies.
Manu:people aren't necessarily going to understand the nuances of
the semantics and will simply put in whatever strings they feel fit
... requiring specific data types will make the vocabular less
accessible
... microformats try to make things easiest to use
... strings have no deeper interpretation; you are permitted to put
whatever you want in a string
Ben: The right approach would be to have experts figure it out.
ShaneM: I disagree a bit - we don't have to figure this stuff out.
<mhausenblas> +1
Ben: People are still going to look to us to write up vocabularies.
... I agree in principle, but we have to bootstrap this somehow.
<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss vocabulary evolution
ShaneM: how does ontology discovery works?
Ben: Michael is the mechanical turk behind ontology discovery.
Michael: I do agree with Shane, we have to focus on what we're doing
- RDFa, not vocabularies.
... If you have further information, talk to the vocab authors.
... we have to let people understand that there are certain
contraints.
<Manu: these questions are general; "what do we mean by 'location'"
is a question that's not specific to just one vocabulary
... to get specific semantics, give people the option to use
multiple datatypes
... the microformats community has dealt with this mostly by
ignoring it
ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[16] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
<Ralph> [[
<Ralph> Manu: next can think about some javascript tools to generate
the markup for some of these
<Ralph> ... would be nice to have a unified architecture to create
these wizards
<Ralph> ... is there something already in existence we could use for
this?
<Ralph> ]]
<Ralph> -- [17]2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[17] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
[CONTINUES]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[CONTINUES]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]
[20] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
<ShaneM> [21]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Geo-tutorial
[21] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Geo-tutorial
<mhausenblas> Michael: deployment is the 'only' important thing,
e.g. in [22]geonames.org
[22] http://www.geonames.org/
<Ralph> [23]Geospatial Vocabulary (W3C Incubator Group Report)
[23] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/geo/XGR-geo-20071023/
<Ralph> [24]Geospatial Ontologies W3C Incubator Group Report 23
October 2007
[24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/geo/XGR-geo-ont-20071023/
ShaneM: The vocab isn't defined very well.
Michael: People will look at the examples not the vocabulary.
ShaneM: That's fine.
... What about URIs that represent the thing and URIs that represent
the web page.
... I don't like this distinction - could Steven/Ralph go into the
wiki and fix it.
Michael: It's perfectly right! It's compliant with the linked data
principles.
Ben: We will have to have this discussion at greater length later
on.
Michael: There is a page on ESW [25]RDFa_vs_RDFXML] - if we want to
discuss that there, it would be good.
[25] http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa_vs_RDFXML
ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [DONE]
[26] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
ACTION: Steven migrate VEVENT examples to rdfa.info wiki [recorded
in [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform
transferred to W3C [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[CONTINUES]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded
in [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[CONTINUES]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
State of CR, Implementations, Review of Process.
<Steven> CURIEs are going to CR soon too
Ben: CR period ends on July 18th
... At that point we should have an implementation report with a
couple of implementations that are thoroughly documented.
<mhausenblas> [30]RDFa/implementation-report
[30] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/implementation-report/
Michael: We have 3 that are fully compliant.
... err, 2 that are fully compliant.
... Shark is also fully compliant.
Ralph: That's great that they have another implementation that's
done in CR.
Michael: It would be good to have a fully compliant PHP
implementation.
ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
Ben: How do we integrate Javascript parsers.
... Do the test harnesses need to be official? Or do we just need to
report on them?
Ralph: I'd like to talk about hosting test harness.
Ben: Let's do that right now.
Ralph: I had suggested to move test harness to W3C.
... Everyone seemed to be in agreement.
... It's not a requirement.
... Since this is Working Group output, we should archive it.
... We didn't get it moved over in time, Manu sent the harness to
me, made an attempt to install it.
... The question was presented to me as to where it should reside
and for how long?
... How long is the test harness useful to the community?
... I said a couple of years...I asked Manu if he has any issues
hosting it.
... The two questions are: Does the group have any strong preference
for where it's hosted?
... Do we think it does need to be hosted for a number of years?
Michael: The online version could run there, and a version to
download.
Manu: Yep, no problem hosting.
Manu: we have no problem continuing to host the harness
... also willing to check it in to the W3C CVS repository
... already available for download
ShaneM: Easier to maintain if it's kept at Digital Bazaar.
Ben: Could we proxy it?
Ralph: We'd rather not proxy to non W3C host.
Ben: Okay, are you willing to keep hosting it, Manu?
Manu: Yes.
Michael: The only thing I need are the EARL reports.
Manu: Elias wanted EARL report generation to be cleaned up.
Ben: About the process - is all we need the implementation report?
Ralph: We have to respond to all comments and issues.
... The implementation report is the main thing we need.
... It doesn't need to be exhaustive, we just have to show that
there are 2 implementations of everything.
Michael: I will be gone at 14th July, back on the 25th.
Ben: I'd like to make sure that we include Javascript parsers in
final report.
Ralph: It would be good to document as many as we can - although,
it's not essential.
... if we were to publish PR on Aug 1st, we'd probably need to give
them 8 weeks to respond.
... Publishing the PR any time in August would push us back to
September.
Ben: Even if we did it on July 21st, it would still push us back
that far right?
Michael: Well, if I'm not here, the XSLT is online.
Ben: We don't need to rush you back from vacation - let's take a
look at what we have on July 18th and aim for August 1st for PR
request.
... The primer is a note, but people seem to be interested in
validation. I feel like adding tweaks on how to validate to the
Primer.
ShaneM: You can do that at any time.
Steven: +1
<mhausenblas> re validation see [32]rdfa.info/wiki/How-to-validate
[32] http://rdfa.info/wiki/How-to-validate
Ben: What about syntax/editorial issues? Should we make that
coincide with end of CR?
Ralph: We need to make editorial corrections at PR
Ben: Then we should modify editors draft.
Ralph: Yes, but make sure any change made is editorial.
Ben: Alans comment is the only non-editorial, but we will only make
editorial changes.
... I think we know what we have to do for CR.
ACTION: Ben to follow up with Elias on JavaScript test harness +
EARL [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
RDFa Tools & Examples
Ben: I think there are opportunities to help people make sense of
RDFa via little tools.
... What are the big needs that we see as far as tools are
concerned.
Manu: working on Fuzzbot for FF2 and FF3
... working on slashdot
... finalizing hAudio
Michael: working on image/flickr stuff, see e.g.
[34]CaMiCatzee/wrapper.php?report=http://danbri.org/foaf.rdf
[34] http://sw.joanneum.at/CaMiCatzee/wrapper.php?report=http://danbri.org/foaf.rdf
Ben: There's a chance to talk Songbird folks into using RDFa?
... It would work well with Creative Commons.
... I can talk to Songbird folks - let's coordinate and chat with
them.
Manu: That would be great.
Michael: Are you still in contact with Flickr guys?
... What they have for RDFa is wierd...
Ben: I'm working my way to them... they're a good candidate for
RDFa.
... I'll keep pushing towards them.
Michael: They do really wierd things...
Ben: I know, they're playing around with it now - need a little
guidance... see what I can do.
... One more thing
... A lot of people are wondering what they get now with RDFa.
... Right now, we can start pitching Search Monkey.
... The idea of separation of concern... they could be both the
producer and consumer of site data.
... one person can write up RDFa, the Javascript developers can
write stuff to consume RDFa.
... That approach has been successful with some people.
Steven: that's a good argument, separate meaning from function.
Ben: I'll try to find some time to work on our stuff internally...
to build something with that architecture in mind.
... any other thoughts?
Michael: There is a paper I presented up there - it's important to
have lots of RDFa widgets.
... the stuff in that paper isn't publicly available, but it's up
there.
... we should highlight tools - no need to write RDFa at the low
level.
Ben: This is great, exactly what I'm getting at.
Micheal: It's functional...
Ben: Anything else?
... Keep this stuff going - more implementations, more tools.
Michael: Comment on this [35]ISWC tutorial page if you can.
[35] http://semanticweb.joanneum.at/tutorials/iswc08-rdfa
Ben: This gives us the opportunity to pitch RDFa to semantic web
crowd.
Steven: Don't forget about Raptor.
ShaneM: small group inside Google uses Raptor.
Steven: We need to think about how a page should be treated as RDFa.
Ben: Can we do the 10th?
Steven: yes.
Ralph:regrets for next week
Michael: yes
Manu: yes
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to follow up with Elias on JavaScript test harness
+ EARL [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven migrate VEVENT examples to rdfa.info wiki
[recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL
transform transferred to W3C [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
[recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
[recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
[39] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
[40] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
[41] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
[42] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
[43] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[44] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
[45] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
[DONE] ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki
[recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[DONE] ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [recorded
in [47]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
[46] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10
[47] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
[48] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
[End of minutes]
_____________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 3 July 2008 18:22:33 UTC