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meeting record: 2007-03-20 SWD WG

From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:03:45 -0400
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20070320140023.032495d0@127.0.0.1>
To: public-swd-wg@w3.org

The record of today's meeting [1] is ready for your review.

   [1] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html

A text snapshot follows below.

Topics

   1. Admin
   2. SKOS
   3. Recipes
   4. Vocabulary Management
   5. Semantic Integration Note
   6. RDFa

Summary of Resolutions

RESOLVED to proceed with publishing RDFa Use Cases: Scenarios for Embedding RDF in HTML as First Public Working Draft

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Ben make sure http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/ is pubrules compliant and hand to Ralph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action13]

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to send mail to Semantic Web and HTML mailing lists publicizing and soliciting comments on RDFa Primer and RDFa Use Cases work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action14]

[NEW] ACTION: Guus ping Antoine regarding status of SKOS Use Cases editors' draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action10]

[NEW] ACTION: Guus revise his ISSUE-26 proposal to account for other options [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action07]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]

[PENDING] ACTION: Alan to write up the preferredLabel modelling issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01]

[PENDING] ACTION: Elisa and Sean to review SKOS editor's draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html by 27 March [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action03]

[PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to summarize state of Vocabulary Management draft, add comments, and coordinate work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Alistair updates SKOS section of deliverables page based on proposed restructuring of documents cited in he previous email to the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html#action12]

[DONE] ACTION: Guus to check if Amsterdam can be F2F venue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action17]

[DONE] ACTION: Ralph get tracker to watch public-swd-wg@w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action01]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Guus to propose resolution to SKOS issue 26 circa 15 March for discussion on 20 March [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action09]
 
----

                                SWD WG

20 Mar 2007

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0093.html

   See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2007-03-13

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-irc
      [4] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html

Attendees

   Present
          Tom Baker, Ralph Swick, Jon Phipps, Siggi Handschuh, Vit
          Novacek, Guus Schreiber, Alistair Miles, Simone Onofri, Ben
          Adida

   Regrets
          Antoine Isaac, Bernard Horan, Diego Berrueta, Sean Bechhofer

   Chair
          Guus

   Scribe
          Ralph

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Admin
         2. SKOS
         3. Recipes
         4. Vocabulary Management
         5. Semantic Integration Note
         6. RDFa
     * Summary of Action Items
     _____________________________________________________

    Guus: welcome to Siggi and Vit

Admin

   Tom: I need to check the record of 13 March actions, as there was
   some confusion between me and Jon about status of one of them

   Guus: we'll carry forward discussion of previous minutes to next
   week, then

   [later, just before adjourning]

   Tom: I checked the minutes of the 13 March meeting and they look OK

   RESOLVED to accept -> [13]minutes of 13 March telecon

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html

   ACTION: [DONE] Ralph get tracker to watch public-swd-wg@w3.org
   [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action01]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action01

   ACTION: [DONE] Guus to check if Amsterdam can be F2F venue [recorded
   in [15]http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action17]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action17

   Guus: CWI will host a meeting, either in our facilities or in the
   W3C Amsterdam Office

   Tom: we need more people to respond to the [16]f2f poll

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39408/f2f2poll1

   Ralph: see "Open polls and questionnaires" under "Nearby" on [17]WG
   home page

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/

SKOS

   -> [18]SKOS Deliverable

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#SKOS

   ACTION: Elisa and Sean to review SKOS editor's draft
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile
   &do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html by 27 March [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action04]
   [CONTINUES]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html
     [20] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action04

   ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements,
   in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how
   to represent that in skos [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
   [CONTINUES]

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09

   ACTION: Alan to write up the preferredLabel modelling issue
   [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01]
   [CONTINUES]

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01

   ACTION: Guus to propose resolution to SKOS issue 26 circa 15 March
   for discussion on 20 March [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action09]
   [WITHDRAWN]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action09

   Guus: I don't see a consensus yet; the WG appears to be split
   ... Alistair asked to postpone this issue

   Alistair: we have only one concrete proposal on the table now, the
   revised proposal from Guus
   ... we don't have a concrete proposal on alternatives, e.g.
   class-as-pattern
   ... can't discuss alternatives without a concrete proposal
   ... I propose to postpone this issue until advocates for another
   approach post a full proposal
   ... it doesn't have to be either-or, however; there are solutions
   that might accomodate both
   ... see my [24]revised alternative proposal mailed yesterday

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0092.html

   Guus: I prefer solutions that make minimal changes to the original
   specification while still handling the requirements
   ... my second proposal differed from my first proposal by dropping
   requirements for alt labels and permitting more flexibility in the
   value
   ... this makes the specification lighter
   ... this would be an intermediate minimal solution

   Alistair: I thought earlier that your second proposal was the one
   with 'has label relation' property

   Guus: no, that was a refinement of my first proposal

   Alistair: I don't like to have the range of a property be
   underspecified
   ... I think it makes sense to set the expectation that range of
   certain properties will be plain literals
   ... if an application has to deal with various alternatives, it
   makes the implementation more complicated

   <guus> [25]my second proposal

     [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0004.html

   Alistair: I would like to the *label property values to be plain
   literals
   ... I agree with the approach Guus is proposing and make the
   smallest commitment we can make that is sensible
   ... but having underspecified ranges for the particular label
   properties may be harmful

   Guus: the problem with alt and pref label is that we simply don't
   know -- it depends on the specific vocabularies
   ... each vocabulary has a notion of alt and preferred label but
   makes different decisions with respect to [use of] strings
   ... we can either complicate SKOS by adding multiple solutions or we
   rule out one approach

   Alistair: for any single vocabulary there are several ways to model
   it in RDF
   ... just because we choose to use literals in altLabel and prefLabel
   doesn't mean we've ruled out the ability to capture everything in
   that vocabulary
   ... I show solutions that allow people to extend SKOS in various
   ways while still permitting some interoperability

   Guus: I have a feeling that our two proposals will not generate
   consensus; they're viewed as too contrived
   ... forcing a vocabulary owner to create an individual for every
   term is also unlikely to get consensus
   ... need a middle ground that allows for both

   Alistair: my proposal does not prevent either approach; it's a
   different way of looking at the problem

   Guus: but it makes the specification more complicated

   Alistair: I disagree; it creates 3 design patterns that can be
   extended
   ... and would simplify one section of the current Guide
   ... it provides an extensibility framework for modelling
   relationships between literals if you want to do so
   ... it's worth thinking about this
   ... I'd like to keep prefLabel, altLabel, and hiddenLabel stable
   ... there are entailments that follow from the use of plain literal;
   e.g. a blank node of type rdfs:Literal
   ... you can name plain literals with URIs if you want

   Guus: I don't want to go down that road

   Alistair: it would help to have very specific proposal here, e.g.
   for Guus' proposal to underspecify values

   ACTION: Guus revise his ISSUE-26 proposal to account for other
   options [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action07]

   ACTION: [DONE] Alistair updates SKOS section of deliverables page
   based on proposed restructuring of documents cited in he previous
   email to the group [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html#action12]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html#action12

   Guus: I'll ping Antoine on the editor's draft of the SKOS Use Cases

   ACTION: Guus ping Antoine regarding status of SKOS Use Cases
   editors' draft [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action10]

Recipes

   -> [29]Recipes

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#Recipes

   ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
   [CONTINUES]

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14

   Jon: Diego has posted some preliminary work on test cases
   ... I think we committed to early April to have a version
   ... I'll talk with Diego about whether we have enough material to
   create an interim draft

   Guus: It's fine to post a WD that notes still-open issues

Vocabulary Management

   -> [31]Vocab Management

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#VocabularyMgt

   ACTION: Elisa to summarize state of Vocabulary Management draft, add
   comments, and coordinate work [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06]
   [CONTINUES]

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06

   Guus: I'd like for Siggi and Vit to talk with Elisa and propose a
   work plan for this Note

   Vit: I've exchanged mail with Elisa and outlined what we are able to
   offer
   ... we need to consider which parts of the very abstract proposal we
   can contribute

   Guus: Siggi and Vit head the vocabulary work in KnowledgeWeb, so I
   appreciate their participation here

Semantic Integration Note

   -> [33]Semantic Integration

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables#SemanticIntegration

   Guus: we've decided to leave this item as low priority for now
   ... so I will omit it from future agenda for now and perhaps revive
   it later

   Ralph: so let's note in our Deliverables Wiki that this deliverable
   is at risk

RDFa

   -> [34]RDFa Primer 1.0 12 March 2007 published

     [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0063.html

   <benadida>
   [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0047.h
   tml

     [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0047.html

   Ben: I'm not sure I can cite specific reply from Alistair or Daniel

   <benadida> [36][RDFa] Scenarios Review/

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/

   -> [37]Request to Vote on publication of RDFa Primer and Use Case
   documents

     [37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0037.html

   Alistair: I've read the email describing responses to all my
   comments and I'm happy if my comments have been addressed per that
   email

   Guus: please send email to the list with that reply, Alistair

   <TomB> +1 to publish Use Case document as Working Draft

   <Simone> +1

   RESOLVED to proceed with publishing -> [38]RDFa Use Cases: Scenarios
   for Embedding RDF in HTML as First Public Working Draft

     [38] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/

   ACTION: Ben make sure
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/ is
   pubrules compliant and hand to Ralph [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action13]

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/

   Guus: I'd like Ben to do some publicity on relevant mailing lists;
   e.g. semantic-web@w3.org

   Ben: happy to do that. We also keep an RDFa blog

   Guus: how about some html-related mailing lists?

   ACTION: Ben to send mail to Semantic Web and HTML mailing lists
   publicizing and soliciting comments on RDFa Primer and RDFa Use
   Cases work [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action14]

   Ben: I'd appreciate other suggestions on what mailing lists to
   notify

   [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Ben make sure
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/ is
   pubrules compliant and hand to Ralph [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ben to send mail to Semantic Web and HTML mailing
   lists publicizing and soliciting comments on RDFa Primer and RDFa
   Use Cases work [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action14]
   [NEW] ACTION: Guus ping Antoine regarding status of SKOS Use Cases
   editors' draft [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action10]
   [NEW] ACTION: Guus revise his ISSUE-26 proposal to account for other
   options [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action07]

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/

   [PENDING] ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation
   requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal
   values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Alan to write up the preferredLabel modelling
   issue [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa and Sean to review SKOS editor's draft
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile
   &do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html by 27 March [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to summarize state of Vocabulary Management
   draft, add comments, and coordinate work [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3
   [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]

     [47] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09
     [48] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01
     [49] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html
     [51] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06
     [52] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14

   [DONE] ACTION: Alistair updates SKOS section of deliverables page
   based on proposed restructuring of documents cited in he previous
   email to the group [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html#action12]
   [DONE] ACTION: Guus to check if Amsterdam can be F2F venue [recorded
   in [54]http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action17]
   [DONE] ACTION: Ralph get tracker to watch public-swd-wg@w3.org
   [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action01]

     [53] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html#action12
     [54] http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action17
     [55] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action01

   [DROPPED] ACTION: Guus to propose resolution to SKOS issue 26 circa
   15 March for discussion on 20 March [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action09]

     [56] http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action09

   [End of minutes]
     ____________________________________________________


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