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Meeting record: 2007-06-19 SWD telecon

From: Diego Berrueta <diego.berrueta@fundacionctic.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:36:22 +0200
To: SWD Working Group <public-swd-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <1182371782.5515.14.camel@daneel.berrueta.net>

The [1]record of yesterday's Semantic Web Deployment WG
telecon is ready for review. A text copy follows below.
There was one unrecorded action, please read [1B] (sorry about
that, Tom).

[1] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes
[1B] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0115.html

Topics:

   1. Admin
   2. SKOS
   3. Recipes
   4. Vocabulary Management
   5. RDFa

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: aliman to provide examples of cases where
   presentational information is required [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action10]
   [NEW] ACTION: seanb to create the template for test cases in the
   wiki [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action04]

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action10
     [34] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action04

   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3
   [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to update SKOS pages to point to UCR
   [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action01]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09
     [36] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action01

   [DONE] ACTION: Alistair to fix wording on skos issues sandbox
   [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action03]
   [DONE] ACTION: Alistair to propose minimal fix for resolution of
   issue 33 [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
   [DONE] ACTION: Alistair to propose resolution for Issue-33 (minimal
   fix) [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action12]
   [DONE] ACTION: Alistair to provide details of alternative proposal
   [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action10]
   [DONE] ACTION: Alistair will look at raising the examples from the
   issues to test cases [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: Guus to update proposal with issue of single vs.
   multiple labels for terms [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action09]
   [DONE] ACTION: Jon and Alistair: Move SKOS issues over from Sandbox
   to Tracker on an ongoing basis [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-swd-minutes.html#action10]

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action03
     [38] http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-swd-minutes.html#action09
     [39] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action12
     [40] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action10
     [41] http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action06
     [42] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action09
     [43] http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-swd-minutes.html#action10


The full text of the minutes follows.

                 Semantic Web Deployment Working Group

19 Jun 2007

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0084.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Tom Baker, Diego Berrueta, Ed Summers, Vit Novacek, Alistair
          Miles, Antoine Isaac, Kjetil Kjernsmo, Elisa Kendall, Sean
          Bechhofer, Ben Adida, +1.267.391.aaaa, Clay Redding, Jon
          Phipps

   Regrets
          Ralph Swick, Daniel Rubin, Justin Thorp

   Chair
          Tom Baker

   Scribe
          Diego Berrueta

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Admin
         2. [6]SKOS
         3. [7]Recipes
         4. [8]Vocabulary management
         5. [9]RDFa
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <Guus> [I'm stuck here in a review meeting, with no access to a
   phone]

Admin

   <Zakim> aliman, you wanted to ask for last minute addition to agenda
   regarding SKOS and POWDER linkage

   tomb: accept adding a new item to the agenda as requested by
   Alistair

   PROPOSED to accept minutes of 12 June telecon:
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html

   RESOLUTION: accepted minutes of 12 June

   next telecon: 26 June

SKOS

   <scribe> ACTION: Ralph to update SKOS pages to point to UCR
   [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action01]
   [CONTINUES]

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action01

   aliman: wording looks fine

   Antoine: sandbox is dead, some issues that were not fine-worded
   might now disappear

   <scribe> ACTION: Alistair to fix wording on SKOS issues sandbox
   [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action03] [DONE]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html#action03

   <scribe> ACTION: Jon and Alistair: Move SKOS issues over from
   Sandbox to Tracker on an ongoing basis [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-swd-minutes.html#action10] [DONE]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-swd-minutes.html#action10

   TomB asks about the test cases. Any progress?

   aliman: suggest to go as per-issue basis
   ... unsure about how the test cases will look like
   ... there will be some entailment test cases for SKOS like in OWL,
   but also other test cases
   ... we might open a new document

   seanb: it will be useful for us to have a central document that
   describes how SKOS test cases should be like

   <GuusS> +1

   aliman: suggest to create a wiki that might serve as template for
   test cases

   <TomB> +1 to Alistair's idea of setting up wiki draft with
   entailment test cases, etc

   TomB: volunteers to create this template in the wiki?

   aliman describes the procedure to create a wiki template

   <scribe> ACTION: seanb to create the template for test cases in the
   wiki [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action04]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action04

   <aliman> SKOS Semantics ->
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics

   <scribe> ACTION: Alistair will look at raising the examples from the
   issues to test cases [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action06

   <scribe> ACTION: Guus to update proposal with issue of single vs.
   multiple labels for terms [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action09

   <aliman> Template used for some sub-pages in SKOS Semantics ->
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosModuleTemplate

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosModuleTemplate

   <scribe> ACTION: Alistair to provide details of alternative proposal
   [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action10] [DONE]

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action10

   TomB: we have two new alternative proposals on the table now for
   issue 26

   <GuusS> Guus: I have done a small user study to compare the
   usability of the two proposals for Issue 26, and will report on the
   results later this week

   <aliman>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/RelationshipsBetwe
   enLabels

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/RelationshipsBetweenLabels

   aliman presents the "Minimal label relation" proposal (proposal
   four)

   aliman: new class skos:LabelRelation, labels are represented as
   literals, LabelRelation glues them together
   ... very similar to the first proposal, but slightly more general
   ... allows relationships between any number of labels
   ... (now regarding proposal three) I sent an email asking about the
   multiplicity of the relationship between Labels and literals

   Antoine: I responded to Alistair's mail, suggesting if two Labels
   have the same literal value, they should be the same

   <Antoine> my answer to Alistair ->
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0064.h
   tml

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0064.html

   aliman: I'm trying to clarify when two SKOS labels are the same
   thing

   <GuusS> question for Alistair: how do you handle directed relations
   like acronymOf?

   <GuusS> I guess via subproperties of labelRelated

   aliman: (to GuusS) yes
   ... the proposal points that extensions of the vocabulary should be
   used

   TomB: we should make progress on the mailing list

   TomB: and try to make a resolution for next week
   ... now we move forward to issue 33

   <scribe> ACTION: Alistair to propose resolution for Issue-33
   (minimal fix) [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action12] [DONE]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/12-swd-minutes.html#action12

   <scribe> ACTION: Alistair to propose minimal fix for resolution of
   issue 33 [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-swd-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-swd-minutes.html#action09

   <aliman>
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics/Grouping?actio
   n=recall&rev=4 -> section of SKOS semantics

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Semantics/Grouping?action=recall&rev=4

   aliman: the content of this section reflects more or less the same
   as the original proposal

   aliman: in the original there were some detailed examples
   ... but they should be moved into SKOS Primer
   ... and keep only minor examples in SKOS semantics
   ... Antoine sent an email asking for clarification of some points
   ... in general, it is out of scope for SKOS to provide all the
   information required to layout a systematic display of the thesaurus
   ... there is a default way to build a systematic display based on
   the SKOS data
   ... the same question has appeared in different contexts

   TomB: agree that SKOS should not try to provide all this information
   ... UCR (Use Cases and Requirements) might include a reference to
   this design decision

   aliman: UCR should say that representing presentational information
   is out of scope
   ... but the primer might include some hints

   <aliman>
   [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0061.h
   tml -> Alistair's statement about presentational information and
   SKOS scope

     [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0061.html

   aliman: the data in SKOS is enough to generate an alphabetical
   display, for instance
   ... but when it comes to systematical/hierarchical display, it might
   be not enough
   ... you might need some extra data
   ... but there are enough data to create a default display
   ... this might be a starting point to talk about what is
   presentational information and what is not
   ... for instance, consider people by age; age ranges are captured in
   SKOS, but ordering is a presentational detail

   Antoine: this relates with the usage of SKOS, not only the
   specification

   aliman: "schedule" describes the actual presentation

   Antoine: please point at examples where this information cannot be
   represented in SKOS

   <scribe> ACTION: aliman to provide examples of cases where
   presentational information is required [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action10]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2007/06/19-swd-minutes.html#action10

   <GuusS> [I'm still in a review meeting, have to drop off, sorry for
   missing the telecon]

   TomB: we move now into a new point in the agenda about POWDER

   aliman: Phil Archer mailed me about POWDER
   ... (POWDER is an RDF vocabulary to represent content labels)
   ... about the dependency between SKOS and POWDER

   <kjetilk>
   [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jan/0069.h
   tml

     [28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jan/0069.html

   <kjetilk>
   [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0049.h
   tml

     [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0049.html

   <kjetilk>
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Apr/0015.h
   tml

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Apr/0015.html

   kjetilk describes POWDER objectives

   kjetilk: user interface gives people the option to specify the
   predicate and the object
   ... quite different uses
   ... I need a single predicate that maps to SKOS

   <aliman> skos:it/skos:as discussion

   aliman: some time ago, during early development of SKOS
   ... linking skos:Concepts to classes in an ontology
   ... danbri proposed skos:it and skos:as
   ... for instance, link a skos:Concept with a foaf:Person
   ... we don't have this in our UCR
   ... it is up to kjetilk to do something, we don't have anything on
   the table

   <kjetilk>
   [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jan/0069.h
   tml

     [31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jan/0069.html

   TomB: it doesn't look that we can do anything by this Friday

   aliman: this is one of several similar use cases
   ... this is close with the issue of interoperability with OWL

   Antoine: is this related to the potential issue that I flagged this
   week?
   ... daniel also referred to this problem

   TomB suggests putting this into next week's agenda

   TomB: somebody should summarize this in an email to the list
   ... any volunteers?

   Antoine: I volunteer

Recipes

   <scribe> ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3
   [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]
   [CONTINUES]

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09

Vocabulary management

   Elisa: I want to propose to talk about this next week
   ... to discuss about issues with URIs, also in relation with
   danbri's mail

   TomB: there is some contextual information in the recipes, but
   vocabulary management document should take a broader view
   ... I'm not sure about how to put this into the agenda
   ... it's a rather difficult topic to explain, see the semantic-web
   mailing list recently
   ... it would be difficult to make progress if we use the telecons
   for brainstorming

RDFa

   ben: remaining issues should be solved quickly, they are not
   controversial

   TomB: No further business, meeting adjourned

   [End of minutes]

-- 
Diego Berrueta
R&D Department  -  CTIC Foundation
E-mail: diego.berrueta@fundacionctic.org
Phone: +34 984 29 12 12
Parque Científico Tecnológico Gijón-Asturias-Spain
www.fundacionctic.org
Received on Wednesday, 20 June 2007 20:36:39 UTC

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