- From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:05:59 -0500
- To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
- Cc: public-swd-wg@w3.org
The record of today's RDF in XHTML telecon is available [1].
A full text snapshot follows below.
[1] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes
Topics
1. Use Cases
2. XHTML 1.1 module status
3. Issues
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ben add chem-bla-ics use case to a science use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action17]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben add a forwarding pointer to http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues when the new wiki issues list page is created [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben look at Semantic Media Wiki use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael move the issues list to the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael review Mobile Device use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias start an FAQ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark write examples/tests of striping support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc.. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]
[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Elias to send by email examples of HTML markup that could be problematic with reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben update the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[DONE] ACTION: Elias to look into sharing Open Office with task force [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: Mark to report on schema progress [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
[DONE] ACTION: Michael to research extended usages of RDFa in Wikis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
-Ralph
----
RDF-in-XHTML TF
18 Dec 2006
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Dec/0034.html
See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2006-12-11
[3] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-irc
[4] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes
Attendees
Present
Michael Hausenblas, Ralph Swick, Ben Adida, Mark Birbeck
Regrets
Chair
Ben
Scribe
Ralph
Contents
* [5]Topics
1. [6]Use Cases
2. [7]XHTML 1.1 module status
3. [8]Issues
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_____________________________________________________
Ben: I've revived discussion of hGRDDL on the GRDDL WG list; see
"[10]Re: Review of testlist1#rdfa"
... the idea was that given lots of deployed microformats, perhaps
it would be good to use GRDDL to transform them to RDFa to preserve
rendering characteristics rather than directly to RDF
[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/0042.html
Michael: I like the idea
Michael: the Wiki seems to be dropping some updates in the
[11]RecentChanges report
... I've edited
[12]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requiremen
ts 5-6 times but only the most recent appears
[11] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RecentChanges
[12] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requirements
<mhausenblas>
[13]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requiremen
ts?action=info
[13] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requirements?action=info
Michael: the final version does show all the changes
... but the [14]recent changes page doesn't show all the changes
[14] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RecentChanges
ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[CONTINUES]
[15] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04
Ben: I'm talking with Science Commons. Their use cases tend to be
quite long so I'm working on distilling something down to the core
ACTION: [DONE] Ben update the issues list [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[16] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action03
Ben: shall we move the issues list to the wiki?
Michael: I'll volunteer to move it
ACTION: Michael move the issues list to the wiki [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action03
<mhausenblas>
[18]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
[18] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
ACTION: Ben add a forwarding pointer to
[19]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
when the new wiki issues list page is done [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
[20] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action04
ACTION: [DONE] Mark to report on schema progress [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
[21] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action05
Mark: I've talked with Shane and we're going to move forward using
some templates we already have
ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]
[22] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06
Mark: the module is already complete. I've enlisted Shane because of
his understanding of XHTML modularization and his ability to write
specs quickly
Ben: does your current module have the latest striping and class
decisions incorporated?
Mark: no, not yet
... but it won't take long to bring it into line
<benadida> looking at -->
[23]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ActionSummary
[23] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ActionSummary
ACTION: [DONE] Elias to look into sharing Open Office with task
force [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action11]
[24] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action11
ACTION: Elias to send by email examples of HTML markup that could be
problematic with reification [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
[WITHDRAWN]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action05
ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded
in [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
[CONTINUES]
[26] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10
ACTION: Elias start an FAQ [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[CONTINUES]
[27] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action04
ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary
relations from IPTC documents [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]
[CONTINUES]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action08
Mark: I have to reproduce these from memory
ACTION: Mark write examples/tests of striping support [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action07]
[CONTINUES]
[29] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action07
ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type,
etc.. [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]
[CONTINUES]
[30] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action09
Use Cases
ACTION: Michael to research extended usages of RDFa in Wikis
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[DONE]
[31] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action03
Michael: I added several
... I tried to separate system metadata from others
-> [32]Semantic Wiki use cases
[32] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requirements#head-16b401eee1ad765055a4b133806e0fe799ecaadb
Michael: does 8.1 capture what you were thinking, Ben?
Ben: begins to capture
... in a semantic wiki there are triples all over the place; every
link has a relationship
Michael: I could go into more detail but I really wanted to show
that without any user action there is already metadata there and
RDFa could be provided
Ben: can point out that all the triples from the semantic wiki can
be included in the HTML
Michael: I'm not so deep into semantic wikis to know if they want to
go into client-side RDFa
... they're currently constructing RDF on the server side from the
raw page source
Ben: I need to resync on this; I've talked with Stefano Mazocchi
ACTION: Ben look at Semantic Media Wiki use case [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action15]
[33] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action15
Michael: [34]PDF use case
... converting PDF to HTML can preserve the metadata using RDFa
... Mobile Device use case; I looked quickly at DELI and it seems
feasible to create this on the fly
[34] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requirements#head-fd77f6f46ed0abaa22c6f67728d9df884238e7bf
Mark: doesn't seem quite the right way around; CC/PP is delivered by
the client to the server
Ralph: that is my understanding as well; the server does some
processing based on the client describing its capabilities
Mark: role attribute is used now a lot in the mobile community
... to describe, e.g. that a div is a navigation bar or a footer
... with CC/PP you know what the device can do so the server can
optimize the placement of such things for the device
Michael: Publishing use case
... to emphasize use in blogging community
<MarkB_> On blogging:
[35]http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_chem-bla-ics_archive
.html
[35] http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_chem-bla-ics_archive.html
<MarkB_> This guy is talking about using RDFa for chemistry.
Michael: might be nice to approach del.icio.us
ACTION: Michael review Mobile Device use case [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
[36] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action16
Mark: chem-bla-ics is an example of a focussed blog that is more
than simply a personal page
Ben: chemisty example might be better to go with Science Commons use
case rather than just blogging
ACTION: Ben add chem-bla-ics use case to a science use case
[recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action17]
[37] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action17
Mark: this also shows a need for namespaces
Ben: copy-and-paste use case is Mark's
Mark: yep, I'll work on it this week
Ben: I've received suggestions that the use cases be more
consumer-focussed and less publisher-focussed
... add more story lines, as the use cases are never just one-way
... next 2 Mondays are holidays. Are we able to meet later during
the week of 1 January?
Mark: I'll be working off and on, but perhaps we can communicate
more by email
Ben: next telecon will be 8 Jan then; we'll need to have a complete
document by then to send to the WG for the 9th
Ralph: I'd like to see more detail in story lines in the use case
document. Most of the detail is currently buried in the markup. This
works for us but not for the general reader.
Ben: yes, I hope to flesh out the story lines following the GRDDL
example
Ralph: from the use cases, we should be able to distill out
requirements
... summarized in a "list of requirements."
<mhausenblas> [38]http://www.w3.org/TR/webont-req/
[38] http://www.w3.org/TR/webont-req/
Michael: where are our requirements? they should be called out
specifically, as in the OWL UCR document
Ralph: I agree but I'm pessimistic about the available time
Michael: so we shouldn't claim that this document has requirements
yet
XHTML 1.1 module status
Ben: we have Mark's update
... is it likely to be ready by 8 Jan?
<benadida> -->
[39]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
[39] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
Mark: I hope so -- I'm keeping an eye out for Shane
Issues
Ben: I want to particularly highlight issues 4&7 role & class)
-> [40]Role Attribute
[40] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#role
Mark: I'm happy with the proposal
Michael: whatever we decide needs to go into the RDFa syntax
document soon
Ralph: I'm generally persuaded by Mark's arguments
Ben: we should confirm Steven's agreement
... issue 12 - CURIEs in predicate attributes
... I'm of the opinion that these should be CURIE/QName only, and
not try to add [] syntax
Ralph: the further we get from current HTML practice the harder we
make our lives
Ben: sounds like we have consensus for just CURIE only
Ralph: I need to raise red flags about presuming a CURIE solution,
especially for XHTML 1.1
Mark: we don't need to drop CURIEs just because of XHTML 1.1
Ben: issue 18 nested meta and link
... proposed resolution is to look up the tree for a meta containing
@about
... in Bob Ducharme's example in the use case, do we agree that the
interpretation is as Bob suggests? Making statements about the same
subject
Michael: I have a problem with reification in general. I doubt it's
wise to include it in the first version.
Mark: this isn't reification
... we don't get reification until we put meta inside non-meta
[adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ben add chem-bla-ics use case to a science use case
[recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action17]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben add a forwarding pointer to
[42]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
when the new wiki issues list page is created [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben look at Semantic Media Wiki use case [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded
in [45]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael move the issues list to the wiki [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael review Mobile Device use case [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case
[recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias start an FAQ [recorded in
[49]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM
[recorded in
[50]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of
n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in
[51]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark write examples/tests of striping support
[recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all
mime type, etc.. [recorded in
[53]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]
[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Elias to send by email examples of HTML markup
that could be problematic with reification [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben update the issues list [recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[DONE] ACTION: Elias to look into sharing Open Office with task
force [recorded in
[56]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: Mark to report on schema progress [recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
[DONE] ACTION: Michael to research extended usages of RDFa in Wikis
[recorded in
[58]http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
[41] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action17
[42] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
[43] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action04
[44] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action15
[45] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06
[46] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action03
[47] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action16
[48] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04
[49] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action04
[50] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10
[51] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action08
[52] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action07
[53] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action09
[54] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action05
[55] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action03
[56] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action11
[57] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action05
[58] http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action03
[End of minutes]
_____________________________________________________
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Received on Monday, 18 December 2006 19:06:28 UTC