- From: pat hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:06:38 -0500
- To: "John Black" <JohnBlack@deltek.com>
- Cc: <public-sw-meaning@w3.org>
> > -----Original Message----- >> From: pat hayes [mailto:phayes@ihmc.us] >> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:48 PM >> To: LYNN,JAMES (HP-USA,ex1) >> Cc: public-sw-meaning@w3.org > > Subject: RE: Proposed issue: What does using an URI require >> of me and my >> s oftware? > > <<SNIP>> > > > > > >> >The reason I digress to these somewhat simple examples is >> that it seems to >> >me that once the tools evolve, these judgement calls will be >> made not by >> >computer scientists, but by businessmen, supervisors, etc. I >> suppose we >> >could build some kind of semantic consistency checker into >> the tools; MS >> >Word RDF/OWL Check? >> > >> >Naively curious, >> >James >> >> Not naive at all, right on the button. Like, what >> problem are we setting out to solve here? What >> might go wrong that our declarations of Policy >> and Correct Architecture and so on are aiming to >> prevent? I for one am completely unclear what the >> issues are supposed to be that so concern us >> here, and I am extremely worried that we will >> make declarations based on mistaken ideas about >> meaning rather than on any actual problems. > >Ok. ACorp creates a acorp:uri123 which is a serial >number of one of its acorp:StandardWidget, which >is the product ID of its standard widget and has property >listPrice = $2.00 according to its ontology acorp:catalogue. >BCorp, thru their sw-agent, buys a batch of these including >acorp:uri123. Now BCorp turns around and sends the batch to >CCorp's sw-agent with an RDF invoice that states that >acorp:uri123 a ACorp:DeluxeWidget. CCorp can verify that >the list price of a ACorp:DeluxeWidget is $10.00 and happily >pays BCorp their asking price of $5.00. > >Now the RDF invoice used two of ACorps URIs to >commit fraud. Those URIs belong to ACorp and it was never >ACorps intention that acorp:uri123 be called anything other >than a acorp:StandardWidget. How could ACorp make this >clear to CCorp? One solution would be to publish at >acorp:uri123 the statement, this is <> a acorp:StandardWidget. > >Note that this is a boring, trivial example. There is no >inference, semantic search, or other sw-interesting ideas >in it. I'm using it to point out that URIs have >social meanings that will become represented and >communicated by the Semantic Web. OK, several observations. First, as you say, this example has got nothing to do with the SW as such: it is about error or maybe fraud, pure and simple. In fact it has nothing to do with the Web at all. You could run it unchanged without mentioning URIs; the only point is that ACorp used a name with a declared meaning which was then misused by BCorp. What makes this example have teeth is not that the name was a URI, but that ACorp said it had a specific meaning in a commercial context, and then the rest follows from general considerations of legal use, publication, misrepresentation, etc. (and maybe copyright, for all I know) which apply throughout human society. So I don't see what relevance this has for our topic or why it is our business particularly to say anything about it: in fact, since the relevant social conventions here are ultimately determined by the courts, it is kind of silly for us to even set out to make new law in this kind of an area. Second, if you were to elaborate the example a little so that a piece of SW reasoning intervened in the connection: say, that BCorp had published an ontology which asserted that ACorp:StandardWidget rdfs:subClassOf ACorp:DeLuxeWidget, and then C had used this to come to his own conclusions about prices, then it gets a bit more interesting. We have discussed examples like this in the working groups. I think that it is reasonable to say that in cases like this, the SW reasoning processes are understood to *preserve* any intended 'meaning' that might otherwise, on general social/legal/whatever grounds, be presumed to be associated with the terms used. So in this case, C is not making any kind of SW *semantic* error in presuming that his conclusion about the price of standard widgets really does mean what it seems to mean, ie it really is talking about those widgets and about real dollars. Now, of course, that is not to say that it is *true*, only that the process of running an SW reasoning engine doesn't as it were strip off any meaning that the terms might be said to have had on other grounds. Or, to say the same thing less obscurely and without using the M-word, any process which uses the URI after it has been processed by a valid SW reasoner should be able to treat the URI in the same way that it could have been treated before it was processed by the reasoner. In this case, of course, C has now been misled, and I think that the general presumption about SW inference and the same general commercial/legal considerations about publishing would have little trouble pinning the blame for this misapprehension on B rather than on C or A; but that isn't our concern. Our concern is only to ensure that BCorp's lawyers can't mount an ingenious defense along the lines: an OWL reasoning engine was used, so the conclusion only has a formal meaning, because the OWL MT doesn't mention widgets or US dollars. I agree that would be wrong; but the W3C Amicus Curae brief could point out that the MT refers to entities, and widgets and dollars are both entities, so.... BTW, it would be reasonable, even in cases like this, to say that if ACorp had been so sloppy as to publish an ontology that allowed people like B to say things like this *without thereby causing an inconsistency* then maybe they were partly liable for this mess, by virtue of carelessness. They could have put out an OWL ontology which explicitly said that the DeLuxes weren't Standard, and then any SW agent worth its salt could have immediately spotted the problem with B's ontology. Third, a general point: in order to support all of the above, we need to say very little. Most of it is implicit in the model theories already published (not the details, just that general approach to semantics.) We don't need to say anything weird or controversial, such as that URIs have unique meanings, or that the meanings must be determined by a unique ontology published by the owner, or that properties mean more than names. All we need to do is to say that URI meanings, in any sense of 'meaning' you care to use, are understood to not be *changed* by drawing valid conclusions from ontologies, and that if two ontologies contradict one another then normal considerations should be used to try to determine which of them should be believed more than the other, or is more suitably used than the other for a given purpose (such as ordering widgets). (I don't even think we need to say this, myself, but it would do no harm to state the obvious.) Fourth, your example is actually quite subtle when examined in detail. If the service B is offering is, say, a retail outlet serving a different clientele than the wholesale outlet provided by A, then there may be no fraud or misrepresentation involved here, only a different pricing structure. The world provides many such examples. It is perhaps a little careless of B to use A's terms in stating its own pricing, but I see no reason why we have to get involved in meddling with social/commercial details like this, and I certainly don't think that this is anything remotely like a matter of SW *architecture*. Pat Hayes -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32501 (850)291 0667 cell phayes@ihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Friday, 3 October 2003 20:06:48 UTC