- From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 22:33:54 +0100
- To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
Hello ,
http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html
SVG Working Group Teleconference
16 Feb 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0071.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Doug_Schepers, krit, [IPcaller], ed, ChrisL, Tav, cyril,
cabanier, [Microsoft]
Regrets
Chair
ed
Scribe
ChrisL
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]transforms
2. [6]svg attrs to presentation attrs
3. [7]process for editing svg2
4. [8]hamburg f2f
5. [9]svg2 requirements
6. [10]The MouseWheel event
7. [11]Modified sections for hit testing, event processing
8. [12]XML Events
9. [13]New Linking features
* [14]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
<scribe> scribenick: ChrisL
transforms
<shepazu> [15]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
[15] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
krit: main differnce is syntax between svg and css, proposed an
extended parser algorithm to deal with both
... erik was in support
shepazu: could yousummarise how it could be integrated and what the
changes are?
krit: we allow more spaces instead of commas, for example
<ed>
[16]http://www.w3.org/mid/8996DBAE-9FE2-44D6-9B9B-B0E4CC05A7E6@adobe
.com <-- that's the proposal
[16] http://www.w3.org/mid/8996DBAE-9FE2-44D6-9B9B-B0E4CC05A7E6@adobe.com
krit: also rotate with three arguments with a coordinate. css does
not support this they worry about conflict with existing html/css
implementations
... boris suggested that only svg would allow the three arguments
shepazu: so for css transforms you specify a transform origin
krit: no, it affects the whole stack
ChrisL: so you need to translate, rotate, and translate back
shepazu: talking to css conent creators, they were frustrated at the
lack of transform origin for a particular transform
krit: yes but in a list how would you do that
... would need a transform-origin list and it would need to be the
same length
shepazu: so the transform origin is different for svg elements
krit: some images in current spec show how these work together
Tav: could use more examples
krit: does not make sense to publish 3d without 2d so we should
continue with the merged spec
... no blocking issues from svg
shepazu: so current plan of action is to move forward on joint 2d
and 3d transforms
krit: 3 point rotate might not be needed for html. parser issues are
now dealt with
... so want a resolution on the parser syntax
ChrisL: it looked good to me
(general agreement)
resolution: adopt dirks' svg parser proposal for transform syntax in
svg
shepazu: after that is incorporated, we should publish to /TR
... change of shortname means its a fpwd despite being published
previously
... so sotd needs to explain relationship to previous spec
... svg 2d transforms, css 2d transforms (both already published).
... so push current spec to fpwd than modify in place the other two
with obseletion notices
... so i propse we resolve to do that
<ed> s/current spec/current spec -
[17]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
[17] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
krit: at CSS WG meeting yesterday it was clear that everyone wanted
to push forward the merged specification and go to last call on it
quickly
shepazu: yes, so it needs to go to fpwd
resolution: svgwg agees to publish the css3 merged transform spec as
fpwd
shepazu: we should devote a significant amount of css and svg
telcons to getting this out the door
... if there are issues, lets solve them
tav: status of 3d impl for svg?
(not yet)
ChrisL: can still write tests
shepazu: spec is well enough written that its clear how to write
tests
tav: there are some unclear places
shepazu: test help there too
<scribe> ACTION: erik to inform css wg of our resolution and asking
them to resolve likewise [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3238 - Inform css wg of our resolution and
asking them to resolve likewise [on Erik Dahlström - due
2012-02-23].
ChrisL: spec has boilerplate autogenerated so it only mentins css wg
not svg wg. an oversight I am sure
shepazu: comments should go to fxtf
cyril: don't want to read all of www-style to get the comments
shepazu: its easy to follow a link to join a mailing list, for
people interested.
krit: css3-transforms keyword in subject
cyril: but people are not consistent
shepazu: mailto link can contain the subject "[css3-transforms]"
svg attrs to presentation attrs
ed: no-one from microsoft here
... pinged them but no response
cyril: we can't wait for them for ever
krit: spec needs an editor
ed: we could merge into svg2
... if we dont have a main editor for a smaller draft then its
faster to merge
krit: can't edit at the moment due to other commitments
ChrisL: earlier draft had a lot of motivational material and
rationale which is not needed now we have decided, though it was
useful early on
krit: it should be a module because the css transforms spec can
reference it later
cyril: ask Brian as he is working on the web animation module
... he has worked on common model and syntax and we resolved that in
Sydney
rik: myself, brian, shane from google and alex danilo are working on
this. couple of meetings an hour
... wiki pages on w3.org for it
ed: so we still want a separate module or to put it in svg2?
... or make it a separate chapter?
ChrisL: no opinion either way, just want it to get done
ed: in fx or in svg?
ChrisL: unclear
ed: i have an action to make a draft, was expecting to hand it over
to patrick. makes sense to have someone from Microsoft as the main
editor
... think the spec fits better in svg as its all about svg
properties
ChrisL: surely if a 1.1 attr is an svg2 property then the
description needs to be updated
krit: we have some peoperty names, need to be sure the property type
is the same as the datatype
ed: so for general principle, we still need to resolve some issues
like dom animval. wait for feedback from our developers on that
<ed>
[19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation
_attribute
[19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute
ed: order of stylesheets etc
krit: graphic is wrong, will republish this evening
ed: prefer to wait until we get feedback
krit: also getting feedback on impact on mozilla, webkit, microsoft
on impact on current implementations. erik your comment is missing
ed: wil have feedback from dev team by next week
... anything else on this topic?
cabanier: the color-interpolation-filters could wait until next
week, after getting more feedback
process for editing svg2
<ed>
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/007
0.html
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0070.html
<ed> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process
[21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process
ed: so if you own a feature you edit it, main editors czan edit the
whole document
cyril: seems to say if you dont own a feature you can't edit it
... also good to annotate who owns which bit so its clear who to
contact
ChrisL: proposal is inconsistent on substantive changes made
'unilaterally' by the editors
tav: so i made changes in radial gradients related to border focus
point. under this i would have to find the feature owner and ask
them to do it
cyril: well, you would be the owner in that case
krit: can there be more than one owner of a section
ed: over time I'm sure there will be overlap
Tav: strict rules good at the end but slow us down at the start
krit; so the main editors are guardians on whether a change should
be rolled out
ed: good to have someone to drive a feature and good to have some
main editors, tav has played that role.
krit: editorship can change, too
ed; prefer to have heycam to explain the rationale a bit more
(krit leaves)
<cyril> s/amin/main/
cyril: lets revisit when cameron is here
hamburg f2f
<ed> [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012
[22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012
ed: pleae register
<ed>
[23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012/agenda_p
roposals <-- you know what to do :)
[23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Hamburg_2012/agenda_proposals
ChrisL: not got flights (or travel authorisation) worked out yet. i
see hotels are filling up though
<vhardy_> Kind reminder to book your hotel. As mentioned on email,
we only have holds for a few more days.
ed: arriving same day as brian, staying at clipper
cyril: as will i
<vhardy_> vhardy: I will stay at the East
ChrisL: unclear on date and length of joint meeting
ed: its the 9th, morning at least
cyril: not enough for transforms, animations ....
<vhardy_> vhardy: could make it the whole day?
ed: need writeupsd and prep for those topics
+1 for whole day
ed: plan to have updated filters spec
... will confirm with css chairs about ful day
<scribe> ACTION: erik to check with css chairs that a full day joint
meeting is okay [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3239 - Check with css chairs that a full
day joint meeting is okay [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-02-23].
ed: are there enough here to fo more svg2 requirements?
svg2 requirements
cyril: some of them are easy.
... lets do the xml events
<cyril>
[25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#P
rogress_Events_loadstart.2C_progress.2C_loadend
[25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Progress_Events_loadstart.2C_progress.2C_loadend
ChrisL: is this progress events that j-c duford was editing? does it
conflict with html5 progress events/
cyril: use case is download progress bar
ChrisL: agree on requirement but prefer the html5 solution
cyril; ok for me
[26]http://tiffanybbrown.com/2010/07/05/the-html5-video-progress-eve
nt/
[26] http://tiffanybbrown.com/2010/07/05/the-html5-video-progress-event/
[27]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-iframe-element.html#the-video-ele
ment
[27] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-iframe-element.html#the-video-element
cyril: looks to be much the same as the svg one. no brainer, adopt
theirs
resolved: accept progress events requirement and adopt html5 method
for this
<cyril>
[28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#T
he_SVGTimer_event
[28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#The_SVGTimer_event
topic; svg timer event
ed: think we should drop it. no sense to have an svg specific
interface for timers
cyril; is there an html5 equivalent or are people using settimeout
ed; or request animation frame
cyril: can do declarative animation and look at the repeat event
also
... fine with dropping it
resolution svg2 will not have the svg timer event
The MouseWheel event
+1
ed: reference dom3 evvents for thsi
ChrisL: is i in dom3 - about to be dropped?
ed: no
... but we need to have the event
resolved: svg2 will support the mousewheel event as defined in the
DOM specifications
Modified sections for hit testing, event processing
<cyril>
[29]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#svgudom-events
__MouseWheelEvent
[29] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#svgudom-events__MouseWheelEvent
(we look for links)
[30]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#interact-Point
erEventsProperty
[30] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#interact-PointerEventsProperty
some stuff on hit testing of text
ed: and bounding box value
... should port over
reolved: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and
event processing
resolved: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and
event processing
XML Events
ChrisL; drop the entire feature
resolution: svg2 will adopt improved svgt1.2 text on hit testing and
event processing
ed: no need for xml events. could make a seperate module but prefer
the existing on-* attrs
cyril: it was a good thing, too bad it was not adopted
... what other declarative wat to create or monitor events?
... animations plus script
cyril; and can register a dom listener in script
scribe: ok to not support it
resolution: svg2 will not support xml events
New Linking features
ed: reference restrictions good, needs tweak for svg2 features
... different restrictions in 1.1 and 1.2T
ChrisL: Processing External References is good clarifying text
uses more up to date language than the sloppy language in 1.1
ed: yes
... again not exactly but a section like that
resolution: svg2 will adopt the improved wording on Processing
External References and Reference Restrictions
ed: needs more work for external references
(adjourned)
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: erik to check with css chairs that a full day joint
meeting is okay [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: erik to inform css wg of our resolution and asking
them to resolve likewise [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
--
Chris Lilley Technical Director, Interaction Domain
W3C Graphics Activity Lead, Fonts Activity Lead
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Member, CSS, WebFonts, SVG Working Groups
Received on Thursday, 16 February 2012 21:33:50 UTC