- From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
- Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 08:36:42 +1100
- To: SVG public list <www-svg@w3.org>
Minutes from today's SVG WG telcon are at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html
and below as text.
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
15 Dec 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0107.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
ChrisL, [IPcaller], heycam, vhardy, Tav, ed, ericm,
Doug_Schepers, cyril
Regrets
Chair
Erik
Scribe
Cameron
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]F2F with CSS
2. [6]telcon schedule with holidays
3. [7]mini-TPAC
4. [8]Sydney F2F
5. [9]charter
6. [10]FOSDEM
7. [11]SVG2 spec editing status
8. [12]SVG2 requirements, continued
* [13]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 15 December 2011
<ed> trackbot, end telcon
<Tav> On one page it does say 20:00 GMT.
<ChrisL> still no booking for the call?
<ChrisL> flights booked for australia
<ed> 20:00-21:30Z
<ed> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)
<cabanier> what is the passcode?
<ed> cabanier: 26631
<cabanier> i says that the conference is full
<ed> Agenda:
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/010
7.html
[14]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0107.html
<vhardy> Please note the bridge has changed to 26633 (_not_ 26631
anymore)
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam
F2F with CSS
VH: there's a UEFA championship happening in that week
… so it's difficult to book travel/hotels
… we've updated the page with hotel information and pricing
… it's not too bad, there are hotels 60-170
… one of the worries is about travel
… we sent a questionnaire to the CSS WG
… wasn't sure if CSS/SVG should use the same questionnaire
… otherwise we could just decide that we want to go one particular
way in the group
… the CSS WG is leaning towards changing the date of the meeting, at
the same location
<ChrisL> the poll shows just as many people wanting to change the
location and keep the date
… we (hosts) would also prefer to keep the same location
… but we could also host in Hamburg on the same dates
CL: can't seem to edit the CSS WG's questionnaire to allow SVG
people to respond to it
CM: are there specific dates if we keep the same location?
VH: probably before. after I can't.
<ChrisL> change the location and keep the same dates? has 8 yes and
5 yes-and-prefer
CM: same for me
VH: probably the better option is to do it just one week before, in
the same place, or we move it
CL: I can't do it one week before, I'm attending a conference
<ChrisL> libre graphics s the week before
VH: some other CSS people can't do it the week before
<ChrisL> ac meeting is the week after
CL: looking at the results so far from CSS, the third option of
"change the location keep the date" seems to be the strongest option
<vhardy>
[15]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32061/css-2012-05/results
[15] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32061/css-2012-05/results
CM: I can't do week after
RC: I have no constraints
VH: we need Chris, and some of the other CSS people who can't make
it the week before
… I will give an update early January about the F2F
<cabanier> * Adobe office in Hamburg is very nice
<scribe> ACTION: Vincent to email CSS WG to say that the SVG WG
prefers to move the location and keep the same date [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3185 - Email CSS WG to say that the SVG WG
prefers to move the location and keep the same date [on Vincent
Hardy - due 2011-12-22].
telcon schedule with holidays
ED: the four next telcons scheduled
<ed> 22 Dec, 29 Dec, 5 Jan, 12 Jan
<ChrisL> do we have a f2f agenda for preparation over the holidays?
CC: I cannot make 29 Dec
ED: I can make 22 Dec and 5 Jan
DS: I might be able to make 5 Jan, not sure
ED: so let's cancel 29 Dec, and 12 Jan
… let's keep 22 Dec and 5 Jan on
<ChrisL> my regrets for 22 Dec and 5 Jan
<ed> ACTION: ed to send a reminder to the list about the telcon
schedule (cancelling 29 dec, 12 jan) [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3186 - Send a reminder to the list about
the telcon schedule (cancelling 29 dec, 12 jan) [on Erik Dahlström -
due 2011-12-22].
mini-TPAC
<shepazu>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-scriptlib/2011Nov/000
0.html
[18]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-scriptlib/2011Nov/0000.html
DS: there was a suggestion from some of the chairs that several
groups get together and colocate a meeting in Silicon Valley
… at least one chair pushed back on that, saying their group needed
more lead time to organise that
… Mike Smith said there was still interest in coordinating script
library people
… so there's an idea of doing it in either March or May
… if a WG doesn't want to show up, it doesn't have to, but we might
want to coordinate informally
… there's value in us getting together with the script library folks
TB: what do you mean by script libraries?
DS: things like jQuery, dojo, d3, raphael. not sure who exactly who
would show up
… but definitely the jQuery folks would
… there's a lot of interest from the script librarians about the
Component Model, and I think it would be beneficial to be in the
same room to talk about these things
… at TPAC we ran out of time
… I think it would be good for the SVG WG to be in there
CM: what's the proposed duration of the mini TPAC?
DS: let's follow up on the mailing list
Sydney F2F
<shepazu> [19]http://svgsocial.eventbrite.com/
[19] http://svgsocial.eventbrite.com/
DS: Chris you may be surprised to see you're on the agenda here
CL: ok, that's fine
DS: I thought it would be a good idea to meet up with web developers
… we may have 50-60 people signed up to attend
… it is a free event
… I figure each of us who is interested can do a demo
… we might have a short panel session
… Dmitri Baranovsky might be interested in presenting too
CM: that's the Thursday night
DS: yes
… location TBA
… we should think about what we should present to them
… I was thinking of doing something brief on integrating SVG and
HTML
… maybe Erik you can do some SVG Wow stuff
charter
CL: the charter is expected to go back out to the AC this week
<ChrisL> includes requessted edits on SVG DOM refactoring from RIM
and Opera
FOSDEM
<ChrisL> [20]http://fosdem.org/2012/
[20] http://fosdem.org/2012/
CL: I've put in a talk to FOSDEM at the beginning of February at the
Colour Management session
… I'll be talking about the SVG2 Color chapter, and getting feedback
from people there
<ChrisL> talk is about color management in svg2. i have provisional
acceptance
SVG2 spec editing status
<ed>
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/008
2.html
[21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0082.html
CL: I read through the document you (Tav) wrote
… I don't like cid on portions of something
… it should link to an outermost container for a property definition
(or whatever)
… if you're using a <dl> as a block container I'd rather see the id
on the <dl> itself
… I like the way you've laid it out, the markup is much better
… I agree we should do properties and attributes in a similar way if
possible
… but it would be good to have it styled the same way as in CSS
specs, for properties
CC: there are two versions of attribute definitions
… I agree with the change proposed by Tav (the linear gradient one)
<cyril>
[22]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#LinearGradients
[22] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#LinearGradients
<ChrisL>
[23]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#LinearGradients
[23] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#LinearGradients
<scribe> ACTION: Tav to ask Vincent for feedback on the spec styling
[recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3187 - Ask Vincent for feedback on the
spec styling [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2011-12-22].
SVG2 requirements, continued
<cyril>
[25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#A
dvanced_pattern_methods
[25]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Advanced_pattern_methods
CC: next is Advanced Pattern Methods
CM: Olaf's dot point here is brief
<ChrisL> There was a call for halftone screening as well, could be
done as a pattern
… but I remember he mentioned somewhere else about different
mathetmatical tiling methods
… there are 12 of them? I can't remember the name.
TB: 13 I think. symmetries. Inkscape supports those.
… another request was for half toning
RC: half toning is not really a pattern
TB: might make more sense in filters
RC: what is the use case for half toning? print or on screen?
TB: on screen
<Tav>
[26]http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Trace.html
[26] http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Trace.html
TB: the star is the pattern
… you can change the size, colour, based on the colour underneath
… this actually uses <use>
RC: programmatically in inkscape itself? not in the language?
TB: yes
RC: for half toning, maybe you could have a filter that takes a spot
function
… you would feed in the value of the colour, typically you have four
spot functions (CMYK)
… you fill in the value of the colour and out comes the region of
the cell you will paint
… half toning is like cells with pixels in them
… you tile that, and feed in the colour values into the spot
function
<ChrisL>
[27]http://qualityinprint.blogspot.com/2009/06/custom-halftone-dots.
html
[27]
http://qualityinprint.blogspot.com/2009/06/custom-halftone-dots.html
[28]http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles.html
[28] http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles.html
<ChrisL> the dot screens are at different angles because they are
opaque (for ink) but that gives rosette pattersn where the dots form
clusters
TB: for the tiling, you take a single object or group and inkscape
knows the size of it
<ed>
[29]http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Symmetries.ht
ml
[29]
http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Symmetries.html
… looking at
[30]http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Symmetries.ht
ml
[30]
http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Symmetries.html
… it just computes the position of where to put the tiles
<ChrisL> rosettes, see
[31]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lNzlqVMcIj8/Si6ZsNCWLaI/AAAAAAAAAuw/4T
nbKSrvtWM/s1600/Birthday+Bitmapped.jpg
[31]
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lNzlqVMcIj8/Si6ZsNCWLaI/AAAAAAAAAuw/4TnbKSrvtWM/s1600/Birthday+Bitmapped.jpg
… in the first example, the bounding box extends outside the tiling
area, so you get overlap
… in inkscape you can adjust the overlap, the "pattern size"
CM: that sets a clip?
TB: the pattern can extend outside
… if you want to pattern something on a rectangular grid, you can
choose to do it on a grid smaller than the size of the bounding box
… and then you get overlaps
<cyril> rosettes:
[32]http://qualityinprint.blogspot.com/2009/04/rosettes-everything-y
ou-didnt-realize.html
[32]
http://qualityinprint.blogspot.com/2009/04/rosettes-everything-you-didnt-realize.html
… in some cases, when you're doing hexagonal tiling, if you are not
careful you will get content outside the tiling area and you'll get
overlaps
… it would be fairly straightforward to specify, not sure how useful
it is
… inkscape not only can do those tiling symmetries, see the
following pages
… you can add random shifts, shrink or expand the tiles
CC: is there anything in common with the Tiling & Layering work in
the Mapping TF?
CL: not really, that's more for multi resolution images
… where you're automatically tiling where they butt together,
producing an image by slicing it into multiple pieces
… it's not a repeating pattern
TB: one place where this might be useful is in Mapping
<ChrisL> see
[33]http://www.w3.org/Submission/2011/SUBM-SVGTL-20110607/
[33] http://www.w3.org/Submission/2011/SUBM-SVGTL-20110607/
… if you want a pattern to show a swamp, the density say
… if you could turn a gradient into a density map, add a bit of
randomness
<ChrisL> in particular
[34]http://www.w3.org/Submission/2011/SUBM-SVGTL-20110607/#Tiling
[34] http://www.w3.org/Submission/2011/SUBM-SVGTL-20110607/#Tiling
<cyril> [35]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2310
[35] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2310
CC: the next requirement on the page is also about advanced patterns
<cyril>
[36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0082.html
[36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0082.html
<cyril> [37]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#item06
[37] http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#item06
ED: my email is not something as advanced as these tiling symmetries
… more about tightening up existing patterns
CC: does it make sense to merge these two entries?
CL: I think so
TB: I think they're different
… Erik's is clarification/corrections to the spec
… this current requirement is a new feature
CC: I won't merge then
CM: do you have a sense Tav in how useful these tiling symmetries
might be?
TB: not sure it's that useful to include the symmetries
… including screening might be nice, though
… something that can simulate half toning or screening
CM: I'd like to see some brief writeup before accepting it
<scribe> ACTION: Tav to write up a brief summary of what a half
toning feature would look like [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3188 - Write up a brief summary of what a
half toning feature would look like [on Tavmjong Bah - due
2011-12-22].
<scribe> ACTION: Tav to get clarification from Olaf on what his
advanced pattern request is [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3189 - Get clarification from Olaf on what
his advanced pattern request is [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2011-12-22].
<ed>
[40]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing
_List_Feedback#Video.2Faudio_on_demand
[40]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback#Video.2Faudio_on_demand
ED: next one is "Video/Audio on Demand"
... we did resolve at TPAC to have video and audio elements simliar
to HTML5, or with the same functionality
<ChrisL> same dom or same markup?
CC: we concluded that we wanted to have the HTML5 video/audio
elements, unmodified
<ChrisL> because the svg tiny 1.2 ones have better markup but sucky
dom
<ChrisL> sigh
<ChrisL> so, no time containers on audio and video then
CM: did you discuss issues of namespaces, or overlap between
HTML/SVG elements?
CC: I think it was going to be in the SVG namespace
<cyril> [41]http://www.w3.org/2011/11/04-svg-minutes.html#item12
[41] http://www.w3.org/2011/11/04-svg-minutes.html#item12
<cyril> "RESOLUTION: SVG 2 will have a video element in SVG
namespace with the same characteristics as the HTML 5 video element"
ED: "same characteristics" doesn't necessarily mean there are no
differences
RC: this is for SVG that's not running in a browser?
… because you don't have foreignObject?
CM: in the minutes the question was raised about foreignObject, how
it would be different
… and Jen said that IE doesn't do foreignObject
DS: just because we're having at least the same features as HTML's
video element doesn't mean we can't go beyond that, right?
CC: I agree with you but I don't think that's what the people from
the Media TF wanted
… they wanted a single version of the element
… they wanted us to modify the HTML5 video element if we wanted
additional features
… but I shouldn't speak in their stead
DS: ultimately the video element is going to have to change at some
point, so we should keep current on any changes… we want it
full-featured, but only a single underlying codebase
ED: I think what Olaf is asking for is basically the controls
attribute on the audio/video controls, not everything else
CM: olaf's request then doesn't contradict with our plans for
audio/video
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: ed to send a reminder to the list about the telcon
schedule (cancelling 29 dec, 12 jan) [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Tav to ask Vincent for feedback on the spec styling
[recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Tav to get clarification from Olaf on what his
advanced pattern request is [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Tav to write up a brief summary of what a half toning
feature would look like [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Vincent to email CSS WG to say that the SVG WG prefers
to move the location and keep the same date [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 15 December 2011 21:37:22 UTC