- From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
- Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 09:34:23 +1200
- To: 'www-svg' <www-svg@w3.org>
Please find minutes from today's SVG WG telcon at
http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html and below as text.
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
18 Aug 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0111.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
heycam, Doug_Schepers, +1.317.506.aaaa, cyril, ed
Regrets
Chair
Cameron
Scribe
Cyril Concolato, Cameron
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]meeting plan around SVG Open and TPAC
2. [6]Feature request list for SVG 2
3. [7]radial gradients
4. [8]propagation of events
5. [9]text tracks and webvtt
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 18 August 2011
<cyril> thanks heycam
<cyril> heycam, how do you generate the ToC on the group's wiki
pages ?
<heycam> cyril, you just use headings like "= Level 1 heading =" or
"== blah blah Level 2 heading =="
<cyril> thank you
<cyril> I'll edit the SVG 1.2 Tiny page
<cyril> it's easier to reference to a item by number
<cyril> yes
<cyril> scribe: Cyril Concolato
<cyril> scribenick: cyril
meeting plan around SVG Open and TPAC
CM: we decided not to have an SVG F2F WG meeting in SVG Open but Tav
can only be there
DS: having a day is reasonnable
CM: it doesn't even have to be a whole day
... it depends on the topic
... it would be nice to have Tav because he's usually not able to
travel
... we can have a meeting and review what was discussed later on in
Santa Clara
ED: what day ?
CM: are you involved in the workshop day ? on the thursday ?
... Tav is not involved in the workshops
... I'm wondering about rooms
... it would be good to meet in the same place as the workshops
CC: could we have a bridge to call in ?
CM: someone should contact the organizer to check room and bridge
ED: the 4th day should be fine
<scribe> ACTION: heycam to contact Andreas Neumann about the room
and bridge for a short 1 day F2F at SVG Open 2011 [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3109 - Contact Andreas Neumann about the
room and bridge for a short 1 day F2F at SVG Open 2011 [on Cameron
McCormack - due 2011-08-25].
Feature request list for SVG 2
CM: we have 3 lists on the wiki
<heycam>
[12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
[12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
CM: we should discuss how we decide on those lists
... especially before the F2F
... we should put comments on the wiki
... it would be good if people could put comments on each feature
and put a yes/no
ED: I have an action to go through minutes for resolutions
... I'm not sure about overlaps
CC: we should have a single list
DS: agree, we should also quantify
... putting a numerical value 1-5
... one for priority
... one for complexity
<ed> ACTION-3095?
<trackbot> ACTION-3095 -- Erik Dahlström to go through the last few
f2f minutes to find resolutions for SVG2 items, and add them to the
wiki page. -- due 2011-08-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3095
[13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3095
DS: one for usefulness
... those are the 3 key factors
... obviously complexity is for viewers, but it might be also for
authors but we can work that out in the text
CM: should one of us go through all and put initial numbers
DS: we can each contribute and then we discuss where we will not
agree
CM: would like to put those assessment done before you put your
comments ?
DS: not necessarily
... we should start today to put assessments
CM: I think my 2 lists should be free of duplicates
... Issues are vague, coming from the tracker
range from bug to feature
scribe: I did not include bugs or problems with existing features
<heycam>
[14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input_F
rom_Tracker
[14]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input_From_Tracker
scribe: it would be nice to have the issue in a single list
CM: is it reasonnable to go through the list for next week ?
<scribe> ACTION: heycam to merge the two features/issues lists
[recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3110 - Merge the two features/issues lists
[on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-08-25].
<scribe> ACTION: cyril to merge the SVG Tiny 1.2 features into the
results of ACTION-3110 [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3111 - Merge the SVG Tiny 1.2 features
into the results of ACTION-3110 [on Cyril Concolato - due
2011-08-25].
CM: I'll put a template also to enable people to comment
... what about "Feedback from Jonathan Watt:
[17]https://wiki.mozilla.org/SVG:Language:Regrets"
[17] https://wiki.mozilla.org/SVG:Language:Regrets
ED: I wonder how many are already covered by issues ...
CM: at least one of those is already there (xlink)
<scribe> ACTION: heycam to go through jwatt's SVG regret page and
add any feature from there to our requirements wiki page [recorded
in [18]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3112 - Go through jwatt's SVG regret page
and add any feature from there to our requirements wiki page [on
Cameron McCormack - due 2011-08-25].
<heycam>
[19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing
_List_Feedback
[19]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback
CM: it's probably hard to accept something without a concrete
proposal
CC: we shouldn't definitely reject features without concrete
proposal
... we should give an idea if a proposal in a given area is
acceptable to the group or not
<heycam> ScribeNick: heycam
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
radial gradients
CC: this is related to an action erik has
ACTION-3097?
<trackbot> ACTION-3097 -- Erik Dahlström to propose wording for the
edge case where a radialGradient's focal point sits on the edge of
the circle and the gradient repeats. the spec. should say that when
the focal point is on the circle edge, with repeat, then the
distance between the first and last stop for the repeating colors is
0 and the paint should generate a color that is the average of all
the gradient stops. -- due 2011-08-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3097
[20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3097
CC: In seattle we discussed content that has radial gradient
noninteroperable behaviour
... I tried to check with the spec what the problem was
... if the spec was actually specifying something about the
behaviour of the gradient outside of the circle, but there's no
formula for how the gradient should be built
... I only found one in the canvas spec
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/009
5.html
[21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0095.html
scribe: so in the canvas spec it clearly defines how to build the
gradient
... but it doesn't say what to do when the centre of the circle is
outside the main circle
ED: canvas doesn't have reflect and repeat
CC: I think as a basis we could adopt this definition for the inside
of the circle
... it would clarify how we build the gradient
... then we should define how we fill the outside the circle
... in the email I have two examples
<cyril>
[22]http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~concolat/SVG/radial_gradient_
construction_animation.svg
[22]
http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~concolat/SVG/radial_gradient_construction_animation.svg
CC: that shows a radialGradient with a repeat
... it shows that if you continue the formula defined in the canvas
spec, you don't have a problem, the gradient is well defined
<cyril>
[23]http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~concolat/SVG/radial_gradient_
construction_animation_edge_case.svg
[23]
http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~concolat/SVG/radial_gradient_construction_animation_edge_case.svg
CC: in this one the focal point is on the edge of the circle
defining the gradient
... you can still follow the canvas spec formula, but it only fills
half the plane
... as you animate the circle you'll never go beyond the normal to
the focal point
CM: so that'd be a straight vertical line
<krit> Firefox and WebKit don't support setting focal point on the
edge
CM: for reflect we could just mirror the image around that line
... we could just define this not to work
CC: or choose a solid colour to fill the rest of the plane with
ED: I think IE does this
CC: I'm just checking IE9, they don't use a solid colour
CM: so I think it would be good for us to have a formula for
computing gradient colors
CC: the one in the canvas spec is the one that we want
ED: the action I have is to make the half plane fill with a solid
colour, average of all the stops in the gradient
CC: I don't understand why though
... it's not even a colour that the author specified
... I could understand the colour at stop 0 or 1, but why the
average?
ED: probably because it's hard to pick any colour that matches
CM: I think Tab was using average of stop colours in certain cases
in css3 image values, but I don't remember which cases they were
ED: if you have a line perpendicular to the radius of the circle,
and keep very tiny steps between each straight line, you'll get
something like an average
... tightly packed colours from the gradient
CM: we could flip the well defined half of the image to the
undefined part
ED: it seems like new behaviour though
CM: does it make sense as a "reflect" or "repeat"?
ED: not so much repeat, reflect yes. it's different from the linear
gradient though.
CC: another point was talking about a new value, a smaller radius
fr=""
... I think we can already do it by adding an initial stop colour
... same offset colour for 0 and fr/r
... then you get the same effect
CM: unless you want to repeat/reflect into that smaller circle
CC: the pdf spec has an fr
<cyril> Figure L.11
CC: they have some interesting examples
<cyril>
[24]http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/de
vnet/pdf/pdfs/PDF32000_2008.pdf
[24]
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/pdf/pdfs/PDF32000_2008.pdf
CM: ok so they don't fill anything in the inner circle
CC: let's see what erik proposes
... the adobe guys might have an opinion
ED: the canvas one, does that support things outside the circle?
CC: no
ED: I will consider this when making the proposal
propagation of events
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/008
5.html
[25]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0085.html
CC: I don't know if you understood my problem
... I think this is applicable to 1.1
... when you have an SVG linked from another SVG, two separate
documents
... this describes a single application
... you want some key events to be processed by the parent document,
and some by the child document
... you want to design your documents so they don't know exactly
what the other document is doing with the keys
... e.g. if the subdocument has the focus, and you press "a", if
it's used by the subdocument it's fine, if not then it could go to
the parent document
... a bit like mouse events -- when you click on the subdocument and
there's nothing to be clicked on, transparent background, then the
parent document will take that event
CM: I think they're slightly different cases
... I'm thinking about iframes, events don't propagate across those
CC: what do inner documents do with a key that's not been used?
... I'd like some text to describe that
[discussion of animation vs image]
ED: I would expect svg <image> to behave the same as html <img>
CC: the question then is how should it work with an iframe
... I'll make some tests
CM: if we wanted to allow propagation across windows, it's broader
than just svg
CC: yes it's more of platform thing than just svg
CM: I think it is defined that it shouldn't propagate currently
... per dom events flow
text tracks and webvtt
CC: I was arguing that you could do the same thing in SVG, with
synchronised graphics
... I wanted to check whether there was any interest in having
synchronised graphics in this context
... I found a page from Charles on how to do subtitling in SVG in
Opera
s/Chaals/Chaal/s
<cyril> [26]http://dev.opera.com/forums/topic/370891
[26] http://dev.opera.com/forums/topic/370891
CC: This is a year and a half old example
... sylvia was saying that browsers will implement webvtt, and not
svg as tracks
ED: webvtt is probably a lot simpler to write
CC: yes but it's more limited
... my guess, since it's how we implemented in gpac, is that once
you have svg and video support, adding synchronised display of svg
on top of video is not complex
CM: does webvtt fire events?
<krit> it does
CC: ontrackcuechange
CM: so maybe you could have svg animation triggered off those
CC: all you need is to use the same time base as the video
... don't even need the events
... see the example from chaals
... you can structure your svg file in a way that is frame based,
it's really equivalent to a vtt file
... one use case is having clickable shapes that come up
... with a link to a web page for an advertisement for example
... the media pipeline taskforce are only considering rectangular
regions
<cyril>
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/00
23.html
[27]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0023.html
CM: one question would be whether to use the time of the video to
drive smil animations in an svg document, or just to use webvtt cue
times to show/hide svg fragments
<cyril>
[28]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/video.html#handler-texttrackcue-onent
er
[28]
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/video.html#handler-texttrackcue-onenter
CC: that's the actual events for the cues
DS: I agree with cyril that there should be non-rectangular regions
CC: how about the timing?
DS: no opinion
CC: silvia was mentioning another option would be to embed svg
content in the webvtt file, and retrieve the svg from the cue event,
put that svg inside the html document by script
... that would work, but it's a bit complicated
... if there is any interest in this, we can discuss this
Received on Thursday, 18 August 2011 21:34:58 UTC