- From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:26:23 +1100
- To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
26 Jan 2009
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0059.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Shepazu, [IPcaller], heycam, ChrisL, jwatt, ed, anthony
Regrets
Chair
Cameron
Scribe
anthony
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Errata
2. [6]XLink attribute definitions have mismatching quotes
3. [7]Focus behavior when focussed element hidden
4. [8]filter primitive subregions
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/filters.html#FilterPrimitiveSubReg
ion
5. [9]Focus behavior when focussed element hidden Again
6. [10]Filter Primitive Subregions Again
7. [11]Selection of Thursday telcon topic
8. [12], selectors-api
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0035.ht
ml
9. [13]selectors-api mail
10. [14]ISSUE-2037
11. [15]Core
12. [16]BoundingBox Thing
* [17]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 26 January 2009
<shepazu> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/agenda
[18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/agenda
<ChrisL> trackbot, start engines
<trackbot> Sorry, ChrisL, I don't understand 'trackbot, start
engines'. Please refer to [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
for help
[19] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
<jwatt> Zakim: ??P1 is jwatt
<jwatt> Zakim: ??P1 is me
<jwatt> of course, we couldn't possibly accept a colon instead of a
comma, could we?
<scribe> Scribe: anthony
Errata
ISSUE-2001?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2001 -- Prose describing <font> content model does
not match DTD -- OPEN
<trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2001
[20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2001
<ed>
[21]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#font_modu
le_add_fontface
[21]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#font_module_add_fontface
ED: Finished one of my actions
... have two more for Errata of 1.1
... one of which was for list separators
... not sure if we've addressed it
... but I have an action for it
<heycam> ACTION-2163?
<trackbot> ACTION-2163 -- Erik Dahlström to add 1.1 errata for
stroke-dasharray to align 1.1 with SVGT1.2 (to allow
whitespace-separated values) -- due 2008-08-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2163
[22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2163
ED: Stroke Dash-array is the action
... I remember discussing it
... doesn't seem to be very recent
<heycam> ACTION-2165?
<trackbot> ACTION-2165 -- Erik Dahlström to add a 1.1 errata item
for having xml:space on tspan elements to align with 1.2T (split out
from ACTION-2048) -- due 2008-08-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165
[23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2165
CMC: For the first one, since I'm meant to be looking at list
separators in general
... you can hold off on that one
... and the second one I assume we all agreed with it
... just wondering what things in SVG Tiny 1.2 that relate to this
ED: For the ISSUE-2001
CMC: That looks good for me
ED: Not a major change
... just aligning the spec with the DTD
CMC: Does the DTD itself does it have fontFace?
ED: Yes
... not sure if you want to mention it somewhere in the text
CMC: A lot of that chapter you'd have to recreate
CL: You shouldn't have to reverse engineer from examples to figure
out what's needed
CMC: I wonder if Tiny has enough stuff to figure out what is needed
for that chapter
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to Check the Tiny 1.2 Chapter to see if there
is any text in there that can be used for ISSUE-2001 [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2415 - Check the Tiny 1.2 Chapter to see
if there is any text in there that can be used for ISSUE-2001 [on
Chris Lilley - due 2009-02-02].
CMC: Do we want to move this to proposed?
ED: I put it as category 2
... since I didn't think of it as a major change
CL: It's a clarification and not a new feature
... it's not a conformance change as such
ED: We pretty much already rely on particular behaviour
... I've moved it to proposed
XLink attribute definitions have mismatching quotes
<heycam>
[25]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#xlink-attr
-quotes
[25] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#xlink-attr-quotes
CMC: Just wanted to get agreement to move to proposed
... I typed "news" instead of "new"
ED: It looks funny
... because of the quote marks in the changed text
AG: Looks like "news" | 'replace" | 'embed" | 'other" | 'none"
CMC: Just making a fix for that
... check the update now
AG: Looks good to me
CMC: I guess we can move that to proposed
AG: Yes
ED: Looks fine to me
<ChrisL> Yes, straightforward
Focus behavior when focussed element hidden
<heycam>
[26]http://www.w3.org/mid/Pine.LNX.4.62.0901230045130.7181@hixie.dre
amhostps.com
[26]
http://www.w3.org/mid/Pine.LNX.4.62.0901230045130.7181@hixie.dreamhostps.com
CMC: Mail is from Ian
... we asked HTML if they had any definition for this
... seems like they are looking at it at the moment
DS: We did kind of define it
... we just picked what was most intuitive
CMC: I guess that's the information that he's after
... Doug did you want to reply to that
DS: That's fine
... I should confirm this in our spec
... as I recall that's what we had decided as the default
CMC: What was decided?
DS: Hang let me see
... if an element has focus and it is removed from the DOM or set to
display none
... it should lose focus
... and document should get focus
... it should also throw a focus out event
... if the element has display none taken off it doesn't gain focus
automatically
... I'll confirm the spec and replay to Ian
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to Check the specification to verify the focus
behaviour of an element that loses focus then reply to Ian's email
about it [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2416 - Check the specification to verify
the focus behaviour of an element that loses focus then reply to
Ian's email about it [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-02-02].
DS: Under the most intuitive place under element focus I don't see
it
filter primitive subregions
[28]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/filters.html#FilterPrimitiveSubRegion
[28] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/filters.html#FilterPrimitiveSubRegion
JW: I'll paste something in first
<jwatt> <svg xmlns="[29]http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
xmlns:xlink="[30]http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink">
[29] http://www.w3.org/2000/svg
[30] http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink
<jwatt> <filter id="filter">
<jwatt> <feImage x="50" xlink:href="green.png"/> <!-- native size
{100,100} -->
<jwatt> <feOffset x="-50"/>
<jwatt> </filter>
<jwatt> <rect width="100" height="100" fill="red"/>
I'm wondering what that should do
<jwatt> <rect width="100" height="100" fill="red"
filter="url(#filter)"/>
<jwatt> </svg>
JW: It all comes down to Filter Primitive Subregion
ED: Currently opera isn't handling anything that is outside of the
Root Filter region
JW: The Mozilla code seems to be mixed up about it
... this should give a green rect that covers the red rect
... correct?
ED: The default subregion is the root filter region
JW: Imagine that on the filter element I set x,y=0 and
width,height=100%
<ChrisL> "All intermediate offscreens are defined to not exceed the
intersection of the filter primitive subregion with the filter
region."
CL: [Reads spec out]
... so if you have something completely outside of it then the
intersection is 0
<ChrisL> so the intersection is zero
JW: Wasn't really sure if that was just intended as the end result
or if that was instructions for intermediate steps
... at the beginning when it says what the filter subregion says it
could say that
... it could say explicitly when it's talking about x,y width,height
it says that the filter subregion about x,y,width,height
... Chris is right it does say something about exceeding the filter
region
... but it didn't say that at the start
... it might be helpful to add something like that at the start in
one of the first paragraphs
... but I'm not sure if it's useful to have filters behave that way
... when you have feOffset
... it's useful to have a filter subregion to have something outside
of the main region
ED: You can still do that using filterUnits="UserSpaceOnUse"
JW: I'm not sure
... you could actually make filter region bigger by doing that
... but you could still potentially have feImage that has part of it
outside the filter region
ED: Can you give an example
... so you have an image feImage
... that part of is outside the entire canvas?
JW: let's just say my element is 100 x 100 and I have an feImage
... that is outside side the 100 x 100 area
... I want to use feOffset to translate it to the correct area
ED: Could you use x,y to move it there?
JW: I guess you probably could
ED: You could specify x,y on it
... I think you might be able to put transform on it, I'm not 100%
sure on that though
<ChrisL>
[31]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/publish/SVGFilter.html
[31] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/publish/SVGFilter.html
JW: I was hoping this would be more simple
CL: I doped a link in
... to the chapter
ED: I have a huge backlog of actions on Filters
... I'm hoping to have a bunch of them figure for the SVG f2f
meeting
... it is possible that I have one on filters subregion
<ChrisL>
[32]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/publish/SVGFilter.html
[32] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/publish/SVGFilter.html
ED: but I do remember defining something in the Filters 1.2
CMC: So should we take this one to email then?
CL: I suspect that might be best
ED: I wouldn't mind seeing use cases that couldn't be handled
... for filter subregions bigger than the main region
Focus behavior when focussed element hidden Again
DS: Looks like we deferred it to SVG 2.0
... I do recall making a test for it
... well testing for it
... and there was no conforming behaviour
... we don't have any normative language in the spec about it
... there was no one set behaviour in HTML
... I think it comes down to us just deciding something
CMC: I don't particularly mind what we choose to suggest to the HTML
people
... and wait to hear back from them
... I'd be fine with what you were suggesting before
DS: Ok I'll correspond with them
... does anyone else have a strong feeling on the subject?
ED: I'm just wondering there are things that could be more useful
... when the element loses focus
... the focus could go up the chain
CL: Next focusable parent
... which could be the document
<ChrisL> closest focussable parent
DS: I'm thinking of forms
... if there is a focus ring defined in SVG
... it might make sense to go to the previous focus item
... failing that go to the parent
CL: Going to the previous one makes more sense
... so the parent is fallback
... I agree with you
DS: To me that would be the more requested behaviour because it
doesn't take you out of the context
CL: If the author is concerned they could explicitly move the focus
to an element before removing
... we are trying to make a reasonable fallback case
... for when authors don't do anything
DS: We should explicitly say this is going to be the behaviour so
consider changing the focus manually
... I'll go to them with the above proposal and with any tests I can
find
... and see if they want to align
... I think the good thing is we haven't specified it
... so we can have unified behaviour
Filter Primitive Subregions Again
JW: So basically my question is what seems to be underspecified
... say I have filter region 200x200
... this is only a problem sorry
... scrap this
... it's only a problem if you allow filter primitive subregions to
extend beyond the filter region
Selection of Thursday telcon topic
CMC: Not sure we worked a procedure to figuring out how to pick
topics for Thursday's telcon
ED: agenda requests are always welcome
DS: We normally select things Adhoc
... so I don't see anything wrong with picking topics now
... Chris how's your progress on your module
... it would be nice to have a prepared list of topics
ED: Maybe on the wiki page
DS: Cameron's got the Use Case and requirements for the layout
module
CMC: I'll probably want to flesh that out a bit more before
discussion anything on a telcon
... but if people want to suggest requirements that would be great
as well
DS: What about filters? Could we talk about filters?
ED: I believe we covered part of that on Thursday
... I'm hoping to go over some of the actions I have and I'm hoping
to push out a publication around the F2F
DS: And Anthony you said something about the compositing module
AG: Yes, Erik and discussed the enable-background property
... so I'm pretty much going to use what's in Filters
DS: And we can get Print on the agenda at some point
CL: That would be good
ED: Someone should take an action to update the wiki table using the
minutes from the previous telcon
CL: I can update it
... do you have an existing action you can allocate to me?
DS: I'd have to look through
CMC: I noticed there were a number of issues posted on Core for new
features
... I'm not sure what context they belong in
... they don't really correspond to any of the modules
... it sounds like a good Thursday thing
, selectors-api
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0035.html
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Jan/0035.html
selectors-api mail
ED: Selectors API
<ed> [34]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/#examples0
[34] http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/selectors-api/#examples0
ED: Noticed we got an email
... scroll down at the bottom of the section and there's an example
that shows how to selects API and scripting to select elements based
on namespaces
... you have to filter results from selects API since it doesn't
have name spaces
<ChrisL> instead of filtering the selector results, it would be so
much simpler if it just supported namespaces, like selectors itself
does
ED: This particular is sort of a compromise he doesn't really
mention DOM3 Xpath but he does give the example
CMC: So the suggestion before was in DOM3 Xpath
... if you need namespaces
ED: right
... are we fine with this?
... it looks fine to me
... doesn't look like it will have Xpath in it anyway
CL: Yes, that's fine
ED: So unless I find any other unaddressed issues
... can I respond to the list saying we are fine with the changes?
DS: Yes, that should be alright
ISSUE-2037
<heycam> ISSUE-2037?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2037 -- Define how focusHighlight is applied when
put on a container element -- RAISED
<trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2037
[35] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2037
CMC: Erik I think you raised this issue
... it looks like something we should of looked at before
... is this the issue Chris P raised?
ED: I could be related to this I guess
... although I'm not sure it's really defined in 1.2 Tiny what
happens for this particular case
... you have <g> which is focusable, then you have a child that has
focus auto
... the question is what happens
CMC: I suppose it would be preferable if it was defined
... what does Opera do in this case?
ED: I think but not 100% the element does have the focus
... well, the current value of focusHighlight would be used
CMC: You mean it would be overridden
ED: It should probably be tested though
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to Test the focus highlight problem is SVG
Tiny 1.2 relating to ISSUE-2037 [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2417 - Test the focus highlight problem is
SVG Tiny 1.2 relating to ISSUE-2037 [on Erik Dahlström - due
2009-02-02].
<shepazu>
[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/006
1.html
[37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0061.html
Core
DS: I could be the editor of the integration spec
... for the modules
... I guess what I'm saying is I'm offering to work on the
integrating spec
... whatever that might be
... SVG 1.2 Full - but I'd rather not use that
... but I'll pull together some spec that addresses things in a
larger way that references some specs
... and we'll call it whatever we want to call it
BoundingBox Thing
<heycam>
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/006
1.html
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0061.html
CMC: Niklas sent this email
DS: I don't know if we put this in the spec
... but we did decide what the behaviour was
... it's essentially if you have just a text element
... so it's just a line
CMC: I think I remember you discussing this
... if width OR height is auto
... so he's asking for that auto dimension
... should it be infinite or just the space it consumed
DS: Oh I see
... It should be space
... [Reads spec out]
<shepazu> [[
<shepazu> If both 'width' and 'height' have the value 'auto', the
text will be rendered in a single line along the direction of the
text progression until all the text is rendered, or until a
line-breaking element such as 'tbreak' is encountered, in which case
the remaining text is rendered on a new line.
<shepazu> ]]
DS: We don't explicitly say what the BBox is
<ed> [39]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/coords.html#BoundingBox
[39] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/coords.html#BoundingBox
CL: Right we don't say explicitly
ED: We do say in general terms
... I guess you could auto does mean enclosed
DS: It wouldn't hurt to define it
CMC: If the width=100 and longest line is 95 then the BBox is 100x95
DS: Correct
... No wait
... that's an interesting point
... the width of the textArea is not the size of the content
<ed> [[ For text content elements, for the purposes of the bounding
box calculation, each glyph must be treated as a separate graphics
element. The calculations must assume that all glyphs occupy the
full glyph cell. For example, for horizontal text, the calculations
must assume that each glyph extends vertically to the full ascent
and descent values for the font. An exception to this is the
'textArea', which uses that element's geometry for the bounding box
calculation.]]
DS: we do mention BBox textArea
<shepazu> [[ An exception to this is the 'textArea', which uses that
element's geometry for the bounding box calculation. ]]
DS: That's not actually quite true
... unless width and height are auto
CMC: If any of the two dimensions set to auto
... it's going to be the longest line of text or the height of the
text
... is that correct?
ED: I think that's what we want
<shepazu> , unless width and height are auto, in which case it is
the geometry of the rendered text, as with the 'text' element
CMC: For the case of height of being auto do we want to care about
lines of text or just the actual shapes that go in there?
DS: that's an interesting point the line height
CMC: I can't remember what the line height thing was
DS: I know it's aligned with XSL-FO
[as corrected by Chris]
DS: That line height is an interesting point we don't actually say
what should happen there
... if width and height are auto
... we don't explicitly say what happens
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to Investigate what the BBox size is when
textArea width and height are auto and respond to Niklas's email
[recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2418 - Investigate what the BBox size is
when textArea width and height are auto and respond to Niklas's
email [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-02-02].
<ed> nope
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to Check the Tiny 1.2 Chapter to see if there is
any text in there that can be used for ISSUE-2001 [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to Check the specification to verify the focus
behaviour of an element that loses focus then reply to Ian's email
about it [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to Investigate what the BBox size is when
textArea width and height are auto and respond to Niklas's email
[recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to Test the focus highlight problem is SVG Tiny
1.2 relating to ISSUE-2037 [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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$Date: 2009/01/26 22:14:48 $
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[45] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[46] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Default Present: Shepazu, [IPcaller], heycam, ChrisL, jwatt, ed, anthon
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Present: Shepazu [IPcaller] heycam ChrisL jwatt ed anthony
Agenda: [48]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMa
r/0059.html
Found Date: 26 Jan 2009
Guessing minutes URL: [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: chris doug erik
[48] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0059.html
[49] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/26-svg-minutes.html
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Received on Monday, 26 January 2009 23:27:08 UTC