- From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:12:19 +1000
- To: W3C SVG Public Working Group <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
12 Jun 2008
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0125.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
ed, anthony, Doug_Schepers, +1.408.536.aaaa, [IPcaller],
heycam
Regrets
Andrew, Emmons
Chair
Erik Dahlstrom
Scribe
anthony
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Nuremberg F2F (updated)
2. [6]1.2 Testsuite
3. [7]SVG in HTML (cont.)
4. [8]Pending errata items
5. [9]"keep <script> elements running only once"
6. [10]ARIA in SVG
7. [11]www-svg feedback
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 12 June 2008
<ed> hmm...
<shepazu> hmmm
<shepazu> I didn't
<shepazu> ooops... maybe I didn't send out the correction?
<shepazu> guess so
<scribe> Scribe: anthony
<leonardr> (I am STILL waiting for an operator to get me into the
system :(
Nuremberg F2F (updated)
<ed> [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Nuremburg_F2F_2008
[13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Nuremburg_F2F_2008
ED: I got some information from Alex
... I added some information to me the meeting wiki page
... Alex said he'd find out more info for network, restaurants etc
<ed> [14]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgF2Fnuremburg2008/
[14] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgF2Fnuremburg2008/
ED: I've also opened up the attendance page
... most of the information has been taken from the SVG Open travel
website
1.2 Testsuite
AG: I've generated the new testsuite
... which includes the minor Erik made
... I omit three tests
... two of them had zero sided reference images
... struct-use-06-t, struct-use-07-t
... and the third test I omitted is
... struct-common-201-t-debug
ED: with the struct-use ones couldn't we generate the reference
images for them
AG: So they were but they had zero sized reference images
... I'm guessing this is still a beta release so we can sort those
out next
ED: I see both still in draft
... So the next step is for Doug to push the changes out so they
become public
DS: I will try to do that today or tomorrow
ED: I guess we should make it known that we published an updated
version of the test suite
... might want to make the list of issues that's on the wiki known
AG: I agree
<ed>
[15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview#23_Ma
y_2008
[15]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview#23_May_2008
<ed>
[16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/View_the_list_of_known_is
sues
[16]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/View_the_list_of_known_issues
AG: Looks to me some of the require minimal effort to fix
ED: Yes some of them could have images patches for batik to render
or png
... the revision numbers could be a bit tedious
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to publish the SVG test suite, announce its
publication and the list of known issues [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2062 - Publish the SVG test suite,
announce its publication and the list of known issues [on Doug
Schepers - due 2008-06-19].
SVG in HTML (cont.)
DS: We should finalise this and get it out into the public fairly
soon
ED: I was just wondering if there was something left for us to
discuss about the mail reply from last time
... just wondering about results and the rework
AG: So I've started converting the slides to HTML
... just haven't finished yet
... where should I commit it
DS: Contact me when you're ready and I'll try to have the structure
done for CVS
ED: We can expect to have it in CVS by next week
AG: For sure
Pending errata items
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/006
9.html
[18]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0069.html
ED: We should go through these
... First one is about HKern
... it's a very minor change
... changing the grammar for the u2 attribute
[19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
l#hkern_u2_definition_typo
[19]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#hkern_u2_definition_typo
ED: I think most implementations don't treat it as a number
... it is Category 3 because it may change stuff
AG: I don't have any problems with it
CM: I agree
RESOLUTION: We will move the hkern_u2_definition_typo to proposed
status
<ed>
[20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
l#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications
[20]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications
ED: The next one is changing what exceptions we throw
... I also found after writing this
... it's kind of strange
... we have parameters that are unsigned long but for negative
numbers they throw exceptions
CM: Seems like an easy thing to change while we are at it
... We should remove the exception
<ed>
[21]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#InterfaceSVGTextContentElem
ent
[21]
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#InterfaceSVGTextContentElement
ED: For the text content element they all take unsigned long
CM: For the text interface they take character indexs
... they take unsigned
AG: conclusion
CM: Remove the exception
ED: So what ways is a negative value converted?
... guess it would depend on the unsigned long
... It's fine with me
AG: Are you going to make that change as part of the errata change?
ED: Sure I can do it
... we should probably change all the text methods as well
... so in that case we should keep it in draft for now
... so this will be part of ACTION-2010
<ed>
[22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
l#value_spacing_of_keySpline_syntax
[22]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#value_spacing_of_keySpline_syntax
ED: So next one is key spline syntax
... action is closed
... but open in the errata file
AG: It doesn't have a category either
ED: It's more a clarification
... I think this is a category 2 because it doesn't impact
conformance
... the conformance is already in SMIL
AG: So I can add the category 2 and close the action item
RESOLUTION: Pending the changes to the
value_spacing_of_keySpline_syntax we will move this errata item to
proposed status
"keep <script> elements running only once"
ED: This was a thread on the group list
CM: This is me pointing out what Tiny says about script elements
... it's a bit different to what HTML says
... FF and Opera appear to be doing what HTML says
... even for SVG
DS: Is that the desired behavior
CM: I suspect it's that way because that's how things work in HTML
... legacy reasons
... I don't see any issues for using on or the other
... maybe if you wanted to reuse the same script element multiple
times then you want to choose the SVG way
... I think it's a pretty minor thing
... not really stopping you from doing anything
... the two major desktop browsers do it that way
ED: I would like to do it the same as HTML
... I would favor us changing it the Tiny spec
... we don't have any test cases on it
... I'd be surprised if people are relying on it
CM: Or if people are relying on it they are probably relying on it
working on the HTML way
DS: I'm trying to think of a reason to do it
... yes we should align
... either SVG or HTML
... there are some issues in which HTML should change, this isn't
one of them
CM: I think I wouldn't be surprised if there was HTML stuff on it
out there that relied on it
... working that way
DS: I'm fine with it changing
ED: Sounds like we all agree to have the spec changed
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to fix the spec by aligning the script
element behavior with HTMLs script element behavior [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2063 - Fix the spec by aligning the script
element behavior with HTMLs script element behavior [on Cameron
McCormack - due 2008-06-19].
ARIA in SVG
DS: Gives some background of ARIA
... There was a big discussion of the syntax that would be used in
HTML and SVG for ARIA
... we didn't like it
... but we agreed to use the aria- syntax
CM: From reading things I think that's what I think everyone agreed
on
ED: That's what we agreed on
DS: So since that time, on the HTML list and on the appropriate WAI
list
... there has been a lot of debate about it and on the TAG
... tried to push the name spaces syntax
... but if you recall
... after you agreed to it
... it was implemented in all 4 browsers some of which are SVG user
agents
... this was the 'aria-*' syntax implementation
... So that TAG tried push name spaces syntax
... and there has been push back from WAI
... somehow it wasn't conveyed to WAI that this is what the SVG WG
had agreed on
... I'd like to confirm that we agreed to the "aria-*" syntax
RESOLUTION: SVG will use the "aria-*" syntax for ARIA and tends to
publish a module describing its use with the "role" attribute
ED: I found the minutes from the last F2F that we resolved to use
the role attribute
... couldn't find the ARIA resolution
... I guess this answers all their questions
... were all the questions answered on the coordination call
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to send an email to WAI and SVG that we agreed
on the ARIA resolution [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2064 - Send an email to WAI and SVG that
we agreed on the ARIA resolution [on Doug Schepers - due
2008-06-19].
www-svg feedback
ED: First one is
... ordering of effects with enable-background:new and filter on the
same element
AG: So reading the spec it wasn't entirely clear
ED: I agree for the wording on how to generate the background image
is not as clear as it could be
AG: Would be nice to have examples of the buffer
... at different stages
ED: We all seem to agree on the result of his example
AG: So I had a play with it and what opera is doing is correct
CM: The way it's written it's a bit unclear on what
enable-background applies to
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to reword the enable-background property
example [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2065 - Reword the enable-background
property example [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-19].
<ed>
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0003.html
[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0003.html
[27]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#AccessingBackgroundImage
[27] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#AccessingBackgroundImage
AG: So it's that bottom bit before the SVG Syntax example (Example
enable-background-01) that's a bit confusing
ED: So the next on is
more BackgroundImage/enable-background issues
<ed>
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0007.html
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0007.html
ED: There is nothing really preventing you from doing that
... Batik seems to do what Robert is expecting
... and Opera seems to be clipping
... I think it's a bug in Opera
... Robert is suggesting to remove half of the sentence
... I don't think that's the best way
... I think it would be better to add some extra text saying that
... extending the background image past the viewPort
... is possible
AG: Should we make an errata for this? or will this appear in the
module?
ED: My plan was for it to appear in the module
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to propose wording that clarifies the use of
background image outside of the viewPort bounds [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2066 - Propose wording that clarifies the
use of background image outside of the viewPort bounds [on Erik
Dahlström - due 2008-06-19].
<scribe> ACTION: anthony to add Eriks proposed wording to the
Errata. Link to ACTION-2066 [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2067 - Add Eriks proposed wording to the
Errata. Link to ACTION-2066 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-06-19].
ED: The next on is about Question about SVG List replaceItem
<ed>
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0043.html
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0043.html
CM: I started to investigate it
... and then ran into a crash in FF
... [Explains issue]
... The spec doesn't say where the index is
... before or after the removal
ED: This is about the SVG path seg list
... only effecting the case where you are trying to replace the item
in a list
... in the case we have with replace item on the same list
... some weird things happen
CM: So this is why the issues doesn't occur in normal DOM core lists
ED: The spec is not clear on this
... the index doesn't really say if the removal is before or after
... so it's not clear where the item will end up
CM: Do you think we should test different implementations?
ED: I think Opera and Batik are doing different things
... it would be nice to have a few test cases for this
... we should ask him for test cases on this
... we can't resolve it unless we know what implementations are
doing
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to test the SVG List replaceItem behavior
of different implementations and report back [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2068 - Test the SVG List replaceItem
behavior of different implementations and report back [on Cameron
McCormack - due 2008-06-19].
<ed>
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0033.html
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0033.html
ED: So the next one is
... Resolving IRIs for resource documents in SVG Tiny 1.2
AG: Looks a bit like an optimisation
CM: I think it's a reasonable thing to bring up
... maybe you can rely on caching to see if there is redirect still
ED: I'm not sure either
AG: Perhaps this is something we can come back to or discuss over
email
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: anthony to add Eriks proposed wording to the Errata.
Link to ACTION-2066 [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to fix the spec by aligning the script element
behavior with HTMLs script element behavior [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to test the SVG List replaceItem behavior of
different implementations and report back [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to publish the SVG test suite, announce its
publication and the list of known issues [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to send an email to WAI and SVG that we agreed on
the ARIA resolution [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to propose wording that clarifies the use of
background image outside of the viewPort bounds [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to reword the enable-background property example
[recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [41]scribe.perl version 1.133
([42]CVS log)
$Date: 2008/06/12 12:04:24 $
_________________________________________________________
[41] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[42] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51
Check for newer version at [43]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
/scribe/
[43] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/it's/both/
Succeeded: s/will/will be/
Succeeded: s/aria-/'aria-*'/
Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: ed, anthony, Doug_Schepers, +1.408.536.aaaa, [IPcaller
], heycam
Present: ed anthony Doug_Schepers +1.408.536.aaaa [IPcaller] heycam
Regrets: Andrew Emmons
Agenda: [44]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJu
n/0125.html
Found Date: 12 Jun 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [45]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony cameron doug erik
[44]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0125.html
[45] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html
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Received on Thursday, 12 June 2008 12:13:03 UTC