- From: David Storey <dstorey@opera.com>
- Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:00:07 +0100
- To: Robin Berjon <robin@berjon.com>
- Cc: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>, SVG IG List <public-svg-ig@w3.org>, janina@rednote.net, www-archive@w3.org
On 9 Mar 2009, at 11:51, Robin Berjon wrote: > Heya all, > > I'd like to de-escalate from some of the negative bits of this > discussion and try to focus on things that could lead to concrete > improvements for all. > > On Mar 6, 2009, at 23:19 , Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote: >> i'm not sure i understand why citing WCAG 2.0 is "unfair" or "hitting >> below the belt" -- WCAG compliance SHOULD, nay MUST (and that is an >> RFC2119 MUST) > > It may not have been your intention, which is fine since we've all > made such mistakes, but your email came across as insinuating that > Doug and Cameron don't care about accessibility, which is what Doug > thought was unfair. It's an experimental tool, and they thought it > was marked up in a way that would make it accessible. It turns out > that it's not, and that's a bug, but filing a simple bug report > would have sufficed and probably been more effective than ascribing > intentions. > > So, in order to make this constructive, do you have concrete ideas > on how to make a n by n table of multi-valued options accessible? > ARIA's a start, but I'm not sure it is powerful enough yet to do > that (I'd be happy to be proven wrong though). I can see two things > coming out of this: either there is a good way to make this > accessible, in which case it needs to be written up and published > (I'm guessing as one of those blog posts that W3C puts out that > outline specific uses for W3C technology); or there isn't in which > case the technology to do so needs to be specified (perhaps by > putting this example up as a use case for ARIA 2.0). I've asked a couple of Opera’s accessibility experts that are on my team if they can look into this. It isn't particularly easy apparently. > >> even if every one of my suggestions as regards w3c >> publication rules and accessibility are concerned are implemented, >> they >> won't really help anyone unless there is an accompanying "About This >> Document" section that describes in full what the stylistic >> conventions >> are -- for example, it is impossible for me to search for "red" text >> because i don't have any reason to believe that the text is anything >> particular color, but if i am pre-informed of the stylistic >> conventions > > This seems like a low-hanging fruit that could be picked. W3C > specifications only use so many conventions, and the pubrules > validator can enforce that a given section be present in all > documents. If there is a regular issue in making W3C specifications > accessible, then it needs to be solved and enforced across all > publications. The technology side is easy, we just need a set of > agreed-upon conventions (that doesn't need to be exhaustive in its > first iteration, I'm guessing that any improvement would be welcome > here). > >> if accessibility and device independence are NOT considered before a >> tool or publication rules are deployed, then the WAI and the W3C have >> failed in a crucial part of its mission -- to make the web usable by >> everyone, everywhere, no matter what modality they are using to >> interact >> with the web... > > There's a difference between not considering, and considering but > failing to deliver. I'd flip the issue around: if W3C staff and > chairs who are not educated about and onboard with making sure > everything is accessible but also technically very competent fail to > make at least some parts of their work accessible, how are we going > to get Joe Web Hacker to produce accessible content? > > Accessibility testing is hard and resource-intensive. The W3C has > the chance that it has a strong and vibrant community around WAI, > and this synergy should be used. You've listed two accessibility > issues in this discussion (polling and specs), how can they be > improved, and where they are how can we communicate about them? > > -- > Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ > Feel like hiring me? Go to http://robineko.com/ > > > > > David Storey Chief Web Opener / Product Manager, Opera Presto / Product Manager, Opera Dragonfly W3C WG: Mobile Web Best Practices / SVG Interest Group Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway Mobile: +47 94 22 02 32
Received on Monday, 9 March 2009 11:01:11 UTC