Re: FW: SVG & Slider Questions

From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:13:41 -0500 · This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 17:28:20 UTC

Bryan and Brian,

We plan on supporting this kind of thing. We have test cases for accessible
name calculation, accessible description calculation and the default roles
for SVG elements.  If  you provide testable statements for a small set of
non-default roles. I will add the roles to the perl script used for
converting the testable statements to test files and JSON for the test
harness. Then the tests will be included in the  SVG accessibility
compliance tests.

Please peruse the testable statements and let us know if you find any
errors and feel free to suggest additions. Tests that are dependent on the
lang attribute are on this wiki page. If you feel like proof reading tests,
the wiki pages have a link to the zip files containing the tests files and
the JSON for the test harness. I try and update the zips as testable
statements are corrected and bugs in mapping are found. I updated the zips
today.

     Regards,                                                 

    Fred Esch                                                 
 Watson, IBM, W3C                                             
  Accessibility                                               

 IBM Watson       Watson Release Management and Quality       

From:	Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To:	Richard Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>, Fred
            Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Date:	03/04/2016 01:35 PM
Subject:	FW: SVG & Slider Questions

Hi,
Since this is SVG related, I wanted to pass this along to you both. This
may already be under consideration, but can you add such scenarios to the
use case list for SVG behavior and related accessibility?
Thanks,
Bryan

From: Brian McNeilly
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 3:07 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Subject: RE: SVG & Slider Questions

Hey Bryan,

Here’s my first attempt at just writing up how this feature would work /
where it would be found. Let me know if this isn’t what you had in mind to
pass along (I’m not entirely sure this is right):

Feature Proposal: Line Chart Sliders
When line charts are presented to users, a common design paradigm is to
include a slider-type control. A slider-like button appears and as users
drag this slider along the value of a particular line is exposed along both
the X and Y axes. These slider thumbs must be able to accept keyboard
focus, as well as accept valid roles and properties like HTML sliders.

The primary example of this paradigm can be found in finance stock tickers,
where users can receive exact price information for a specific date.
Additionally, other line charts such as the Top 10 US Baby Names graphs (
http://www.visualcinnamon.com/babynamesus ) use this design.

If this isn’t right, let me know and I’ll get on adjusting what needs to be
tweaked.

Thanks so much for looking into this!

Take it easy,
Brian McNeilly
Accessibility Consultant
SSB BART Group
brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com
(415) 814-0522 (o)

From: Bryan Garaventa
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 11:44
To: Brian McNeilly <brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: Mike Schutte <mike.schutte@ssbbartgroup.com>; Terri Fellers <
terri.fellers@ssbbartgroup.com>
Subject: RE: SVG & Slider Questions

Of course, happy to talk whenever you like J

I’ve been looking into this this morning though, and I think I can give you
a heads up on the state of SVG and interactive support at the moment.

Currently it is possible to apply role=’slider’ to an SVG element, on the
actual <svg> tag so you can drag this as a visible image for example, but
it is not currently possible to embed any other types of interactive
control types within an SVG image, which seems to be what you mean.

One of the things the SVG W3C group is doing is nailing down the naming
calculation within SVG images, and this is still in quite a bit of
fluctuation as they work out the details, plus how interactive roles are
supposed to be used within SVG images, and how all of these things are
supposed to work. So as the spec tries to nail down these things, none of
the browsers are supporting it reliably, and no ATs like screen readers are
either. So it’s a royal mess at the moment essentially.

I’d be happy to pass along a spec recommendation though if you would like
to write up a feature proposal for this type of interaction. Would you like
to do this?

J

Bryan Garaventa
Senior Accessibility Engineer
SSB BART Group, Inc.
bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com
415.624.2709 (o)
www.SSBBartGroup.com

From: Brian McNeilly
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 9:35 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Subject: SVG & Slider Questions

Hi Bryan,

I was wondering if we could set up some time either today or early next
week to talk through some questions I have about the proper usage of the
ARIA role of slider and SVG more generally.

For some background, I got tasked with talking to some of the developers at
Yahoo about their charts (particularly line charts) and tables. The main
question I had was about applying the role of slider to an SVG element. I
realize there may not be API mappings / AT support, but based on what I’m
seeing it is something that could be done within the ARIA spec. First off,
is that assumption on my part correct? Secondly, is this an appropriate
role for a line chart that allows users to mouse over the line and get a
series of stock values for a certain day? My worry is that the slider role
implies submitting or selecting a value, which isn’t the exact usage in
this case. But, on the other hand, in terms of the paradigm being visually
displayed, the content is a slider.

In short, I could really use your ARIA expertise. Let me know if there’s a
time that works for you (or if these are easy questions for you, feel free
to answer them over email J).

Thanks so much. Also, this is for the Yahoo project in basecamp, there’s a
todo for “Accessibility of charts and graphs” you can put your time in. I
think Terri will need to add you though.

Happy Friday,
Brian McNeilly
Accessibility Consultant
SSB BART Group
brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com
(415) 814-0522 (o)

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��z{C��h�+b�x��)�<html><body>Bryan and Brian, We plan on supporting this kind of thing. We have test cases for accessible name calculation, accessible description calculation and the default roles for SVG elements. If you provide <a href="https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions">testable statements</a> for a small set of non-default roles. I will add the roles to the <a href="https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:Extract.docx">perl script</a> used for converting the testable statements to test files and JSON for the test harness. Then the tests will be included in the SVG accessibility compliance tests. Please peruse the testable statements and let us know if you find any errors and feel free to suggest additions. Tests that are dependent on the lang attribute are on this <a href="https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions/Language">wiki page</a>. If you feel like proof reading tests, the wiki pages have a link to the zip files containing the tests files and the JSON for the test harness. I try and update the zips as testable statements are corrected and bugs in mapping are found. I updated the zips today. 
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center">Regards, Fred Esch Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5FFDFFFAA3C8f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle">Watson Release Management and Quality </td></tr></table> <img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=0ABBF5FFDFFFAA3C8f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Bryan Garaventa ---03/04/2016 01:35:01 PM---Hi, Since this is SVG related, I wanted to pass this alon">Bryan Garaventa ---03/04/2016 01:35:01 PM---Hi, Since this is SVG related, I wanted to pass this along to you both. This may already be under co From: Bryan Garaventa &lt;bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com&gt; To: Richard Schwerdtfeger &lt;richschwer@gmail.com&gt;, Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS Date: 03/04/2016 01:35 PM Subject: FW: SVG &amp; Slider Questions <hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "> Hi, Since this is SVG related, I wanted to pass this along to you both. This may already be under consideration, but can you add such scenarios to the use case list for SVG behavior and related accessibility? Thanks, Bryan From: Brian McNeilly Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 3:07 PM To: Bryan Garaventa &lt;bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com&gt; Subject: RE: SVG &amp; Slider Questions Hey Bryan, Here’s my first attempt at just writing up how this feature would work / where it would be found. Let me know if this isn’t what you had in mind to pass along (I’m not entirely sure this is right): Feature Proposal: Line Chart Sliders When line charts are presented to users, a common design paradigm is to include a slider-type control. A slider-like button appears and as users drag this slider along the value of a particular line is exposed along both the X and Y axes. These slider thumbs must be able to accept keyboard focus, as well as accept valid roles and properties like HTML sliders. The primary example of this paradigm can be found in finance stock tickers, where users can receive exact price information for a specific date. Additionally, other line charts such as the Top 10 US Baby Names graphs ( <a href="http://www.visualcinnamon.com/babynamesus">http://www.visualcinnamon.com/babynamesus</a> ) use this design. If this isn’t right, let me know and I’ll get on adjusting what needs to be tweaked. Thanks so much for looking into this! Take it easy, Brian McNeilly Accessibility Consultant SSB BART Group <a href="mailto:brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com">brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com</a> (415) 814-0522 (o) From: Bryan Garaventa Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 11:44 To: Brian McNeilly &lt;<a href="mailto:brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com">brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com</a>&gt; Cc: Mike Schutte &lt;<a href="mailto:mike.schutte@ssbbartgroup.com">mike.schutte@ssbbartgroup.com</a>&gt;; Terri Fellers &lt;<a href="mailto:terri.fellers@ssbbartgroup.com">terri.fellers@ssbbartgroup.com</a>&gt; Subject: RE: SVG &amp; Slider Questions Of course, happy to talk whenever you like J I’ve been looking into this this morning though, and I think I can give you a heads up on the state of SVG and interactive support at the moment. Currently it is possible to apply role=’slider’ to an SVG element, on the actual &lt;svg&gt; tag so you can drag this as a visible image for example, but it is not currently possible to embed any other types of interactive control types within an SVG image, which seems to be what you mean. One of the things the SVG W3C group is doing is nailing down the naming calculation within SVG images, and this is still in quite a bit of fluctuation as they work out the details, plus how interactive roles are supposed to be used within SVG images, and how all of these things are supposed to work. So as the spec tries to nail down these things, none of the browsers are supporting it reliably, and no ATs like screen readers are either. So it’s a royal mess at the moment essentially. I’d be happy to pass along a spec recommendation though if you would like to write up a feature proposal for this type of interaction. Would you like to do this? J Bryan Garaventa Senior Accessibility Engineer SSB BART Group, Inc. <a href="mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com">bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com</a> 415.624.2709 (o) <a href="http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/">www.SSBBartGroup.com</a> From: Brian McNeilly Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 9:35 AM To: Bryan Garaventa &lt;<a href="mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com">bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com</a>&gt; Subject: SVG &amp; Slider Questions Hi Bryan, I was wondering if we could set up some time either today or early next week to talk through some questions I have about the proper usage of the ARIA role of slider and SVG more generally. For some background, I got tasked with talking to some of the developers at Yahoo about their charts (particularly line charts) and tables. The main question I had was about applying the role of slider to an SVG element. I realize there may not be API mappings / AT support, but based on what I’m seeing it is something that could be done within the ARIA spec. First off, is that assumption on my part correct? Secondly, is this an appropriate role for a line chart that allows users to mouse over the line and get a series of stock values for a certain day? My worry is that the slider role implies submitting or selecting a value, which isn’t the exact usage in this case. But, on the other hand, in terms of the paradigm being visually displayed, the content is a slider. In short, I could really use your ARIA expertise. Let me know if there’s a time that works for you (or if these are easy questions for you, feel free to answer them over email J). Thanks so much. Also, this is for the Yahoo project in basecamp, there’s a todo for “Accessibility of charts and graphs” you can put your time in. I think Terri will need to add you though. Happy Friday, Brian McNeilly Accessibility Consultant SSB BART Group <a href="mailto:brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com">brian.mcneilly@ssbbartgroup.com</a> (415) 814-0522 (o) 
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