Re: [SVG-AAM] editorial: Accessible name calculation

Chaals,

The <use> example is a good one (where you would want both specific and
generic descriptions available).  As I interpret it currently, the
algorithm would only return one or the other, unless you explicitly use a
labelled-by or described-by value with multiple IDs.

I will make the edits to include a single, complete version of the
algorithm and I will try to clarify the summary to match.  However, we may
want to then discuss this on a teleconference to make sure that the
approach we're recommending is the one we want!

Amelia

On 21 October 2015 at 12:55, Chaals McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
wrote:

> Hi Amelia,
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:39:39 +0200, Amelia Bellamy-Royds <
> amelia.bellamy.royds@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Chaals,
>
> I'm working on the doc today, so I can make some changes.  This was
> supposed to be the purpose of the note box at the end of section 5.6.1,
>
>
> Yes, but the problem is it isn't clear what gets put in...
>
> which currently says:
>
> The net effect of these changes is to establish the following priority of
>> alternative text values for the accessible name:
>>
>>    1. aria-labelledby
>>    2. aria-label
>>    3. a direct child title element
>>    4. xml:title attribute
>>    5. for a use element, the accessible name calculated for the re-used
>>    content
>>    6. for text container elements, the text content
>>
>> The alternative text values for the accessible description have the
>> following priority:
>>
>>    1. aria-describedby
>>    2. a direct child desc element
>>    3. for a use element, the accessible description calculated for the
>>    re-used content
>>    4. for text container elements, the text content
>>    5. a direct child title element that provides a tooltip, when ARIA
>>    label attributes are used to provide a different accessible name
>>
>> The aria-labelledby and aria-describedby properties can reference the
>> element on which they are given, in order to concatenate one of the other
>> text alternatives with text from a separate element.
>
>
> Do you think a more detailed jargon-free description is required?
>
>
> Yes please.
>
> Or can we get by with that note box plus the complete algorithm text,
> highlighting the modified sections?
>
>
> No, there needs to be a bit more information about where it *stops*
> collecting stuff to add. (That comment applies to the Name calculation
> document as well).
>
> For example, as I understand the algorithms, if there is
> aria-labelledby="onething anotherthing", then you get the content for those
> two items.
>
> But where i tried to work with
>
> <defs>
>   <g id="foo"><title="foo-label">generic label</title></g>
> </defs>
>
> <use xlink:href="#foo">
>   <title>a specific instance with a </title>
> </use>
>
> Doing the same thing as I would with pointers to a generic and specific
> label using aria, I am not sure if I can have the two titles joined
> together or not.
>
> More generally, I can't tell from what is in the summary what to expect
> (assuming the implementations improve enough to make the question
> relevant), and reading the algorithm was harder than trial-and-error.
>
> Which in any event revealed that there is no consistency in
> implementations except support of aria-labelledby. WIth the usual rider of
> "IFF you have a screenreader running" :S
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
>
> Amelia
>
> On 21 October 2015 at 09:07, Chaals McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> it is very hard to figure out what this section actually *says* clearly
>> enough to review it sensibly. Even with two documents open, swapping
>> between them to try and make the substitutions.
>>
>> Can you please
>> 1) Put the full adjusted algorithm in the SVG-AAM document, and
>> 2) Provide a clearer description of what gets included
>>
>> if you like I can make a pull request for the first request, but I
>> haven't got to the point where I can confidently do the second.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Chaals
>>
>> --
>> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
>>  chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>