- From: Crawford, Mark <mark.crawford@sap.com>
- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:31:09 +0000
- To: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org>
- CC: "public-socialweb@w3.org" <public-socialweb@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <72B12967-4E15-4862-A077-31A5DED84D4B@sap.com>
Apologies for missing the call but I am at a software security workshop this week.
In looking at the minutes it is unclear to me what the focus for use cases in the WG is. My presumption is that the WG will rapidly collect use cases specifically related to the WG deliverable in its charter to avoid scope creep and ensure it meets user community requirements. All other use cases should be done in the IG as their identified primary deliverable. We should ensure there is alignment and not duplication.
Best Regards
Mark Crawford
Standards Strategist, P&I, DSO - Standards Excellence
SAP Labs, LLC
1300 Pennsylvania Avenue
Suite 600
Washington, D.C.
Mark.crawford@Sap.com<mailto:Mark.crawford@Sap.com>
T +1 703 670 0920
C +1 703 485 5232
On Aug 26, 2014, at 2:05 PM, "Harry Halpin" <hhalpin@w3.org<mailto:hhalpin@w3.org>> wrote:
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http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-social-minutes.html
* Mostly a great intro to process by Arnaud
* Discussion over URL issue in ActivityStreams 2.0
* Proposal approved to publish AS2 as a FPWD before TPAC
* Scoping with Social IG the use-cases
cheers,
harry
- ---
Social Web Working Group Teleconference
26 Aug 2014
Attendees
Present
Sandro, aaronpk, +1.559.707.aaaa, Hhalpin, Arnaud,
tantek, +44.783.406.aabb, deiu, rhiaro, jtauber,
oshepherd, elf-pavlik, tommorris, bblfish, MattMarum,
ShaneHudson, jasnell, bret, wilkie
Regrets
Chair
Arnaud
Scribe
rhiaro
Contents
* [2]Topics
1. [3]ActivityStreams 2.0
2. [4]Use cases and requirements
* [5]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<jasnell-github> [13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams] 15jasnell
pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02[6]http://git.io/nU1XXg
[6] http://git.io/nU1XXg
<jasnell-github> 13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/06master
147d716a3 15James M Snell: editorial nits
<jasnell-github> [13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams] 15jasnell
pushed 1 new commit to 06gh-pages: 02[7]http://git.io/AGHmpw
[7] http://git.io/AGHmpw
<jasnell-github> 13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/06gh-pages
14cc8bbfe 15James M Snell: editorial nits
<aaronpk> where is Zakim?
<harry> trackbot this is social
<trackbot> Sorry, harry, I don't understand 'trackbot this is
social'. Please refer to
<[8]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
[8] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E
<Arnaud> no worries, Zakim will come
<wilkie> hi
<harry> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Date: 26 August 2014
<Arnaud> there you go
<oshepherd> SOCIG?
I'm on the top of the list, can scribe
<aaronpk> wow look at all the robots go
<Arnaud> harry, that's first on the agenda
<Arnaud> hmm, I wonder whether this is going to mean we won't
get the right tracker associated with the call
<Arnaud> the call hasn't started yet :)
<Loqi> sandro: tantek left you a message on 8/24 at 3:38pm:
next time you're around, come on over to #indiewebcamp on
Freenode and let's chat IndieWebCamp Cambridge/MIT venue
details with caseorganic!
<Arnaud> yeah, we got the calls mixed up with IG:
[9]https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_6
460
[9] https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_6460
<jasnell> on the phone but dropping off irc
<oshepherd> Hmm, Zakim and me are disagreeing
<oshepherd> OK, time to use my Skype world minutes I guess
<cmhobbs> what time is the call? isn't it a little early?
<Tsyesika> uh another call?
<Tsyesika> this isn't the usual time?
<harry> Note that due to complaints, we now have the call at
7:00 CET for Europeans. Otherwise it was 10:00 PM CET for
Europeans
<Shane> Zakin, ??P13 is Shane
<tantek> Tsyesika see /social#Telecon
Zakim ??P8 is me
<harry> I'd just hold a sec, people are still dialing in
<oshepherd> Zakim: + +44.783.406.aabb is me
<sandro> james_snell: I'm on the call, but not IRC
<caseorganic> Hello - I'm on the call
<oshepherd> Zakim: +44.783.406.aabb is me
<harry> Zakim unmute aaaa
<jtauber> thanks
<oshepherd> (finally!)
<harry> scribe: rhiaro
<nicolagreco> how can I get into the call?
<elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik
<Shane> I'm on the call but only able to half pay attention
today
<bblfish> IPCaller is me
<ShaneHudson> I don't see my name on the list
<tantek> scribenick rhiaro
<ShaneHudson> I've got two IRC clients running, sorry. Both are
me :)
<tantek> scribe: rhiaro
<deiu> [10]https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people has a list of
nicks and names (please add yourself)
[10] https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
Arnaud: Welcome everyone
<harry> If anyone has questions about Invited Expert status,
please ping me. It's possible we have missed a few
applications, there was a bug in the set-up of the WG
Arnaud: This is the first formal call. Non-members should join
the WG
<harry> The only person I have in my queue is Markus from
Hydra.
Arnaud: Next telecon 2nd Sept
... Time on the doodle poll is Boston time
... Sticking with Boston time through daylight savings
<harry> Re IE status caseorganic, we'll give you a 6 month IE
is as standard for a possible W3C member.
<tantek> harry, I vouch for caseorganic
Arnaud: Tracking of actions and issues with the tracker
... We could use github issue tracker? Up to WG
<sandro> Is there a simple way to view all the people's
pictures linked from [11]https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people ?
[11] https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
Arnaud: advises to use W3C tracker only
<aaronpk> sandro: the w3c mediawiki blocks hotlinked images, so
not unless that setting is changed
Arnaud: Shouldn't split attention over too many different tools
<tantek> I think if a spec author wants to use github for their
spec, and github issues for their spec issues, that should be
ok.
Arnaud: tracker allows creating and tracking states of issues;
anyone can raise an issue
<tantek> However I'm ok with "Tracker" being the default for
group-level administrivia etc. issues
<tommorris> tracker++
<Loqi> tracker has 1 karma
Arnaud: WG keeps an eye on raised issues, but isn't committed
to dealing with them. Decide if they're important to tackle.
<harry> For the beginning of a WG I think tracker is fine for
WG-level issues
<harry> for specs, folks tend to use github or bugzilla, but we
don't have specs yet
Arnaud: Advantage of using the tracker is the trackbot
<sandro> trackbot, help
<trackbot> Please see
<[12]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
[12] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E
Arnaud: trackbot automatically assigns actions, and close
issues etc
tantek: specs and spec-specific issues should be on github,
easier for spec editor
... spec editing is a lot of work
<jasnell>
[13]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
[13] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
<tantek> what sandro said exactly
sandro: both trackers in parallel
tommorris: github allows closing of issues to issues
themselves, to help with working out how spec evolved
Arnaud: So smaller issues can be handled with github, major
issues with w3c tracker as it's well integrated with other
tools
<tantek> to be clear, I myself do not use github for spec
editing (I prefer wiki), but I know others do (e.g. jasnell )
and I have seen github spec editors use github issues quite
efficiently and nicely
<tommorris> and if one uses the wiki, using the wiki for issues
is sensible.
<harry> I have an open action re the relationship between OWF
CLAs and W3C RFF with Ian and Wendy Seltzer
<jasnell> Will be right back
jasnell had action to find out who contributed to AS 2.0 Spec.
It's on the wiki
<tantek> rhiaro - that was tantek
<Arnaud> zakim james is jasnell
<tantek> [14]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams#History
[14] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams#History
jasnell: All material contributions made by people already in
WG, so should be covered
... The one person listed as needing to fill out the form
wasn't correct after all
... If any more issues come up, will investigate
<harry> Just quick note - it *likely* clears up the IPR issue,
but I want a quick check from Wendy.
Arnaud: Close previously discussed action re: AS2.0 spec
... Action for all - associate yourself with ircpeople page
<tantek> see
[15]http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today
[15] http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today
Arnaud: how long to keep that open?
tantek: We can close that now everyone has been reminded
... Most people have done it
<bret> joining the call :)
Arnaud: Action to send out invite for new meetings closed
<bblfish> where does one put the icons?
ActivityStreams 2.0
Arnaud: jasnell has put the spec on github
<harry> +1 first public WD by TPAC
Arnaud: First public working draft by TPAC
<oshepherd> +1
<tommorris> bblfish: just a pointer to a JPG or PNG on the web
<tantek> +1 to first public WD by TPAC
<jtauber> +1
<bblfish> but where?
<MattMarum> +1
<oshepherd> At least for the AS2 core doc, anyhow
<aaronpk> bblfish: usually people link to an image that's on
their own site
<harry> The spec is here in HTML:
[16]http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activ
itystreams2.html
[16]
http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html
<bblfish> but where do I put the link?
Arnaud: For those not familiar with w3c process, first step is
to publish a public working draft of a deliverable. Can be
changed.
<harry> Any questions?
<deiu> Maybe make it a proposal?
<aaronpk> bblfish: copy a line from this page and change the
details to your own [17]https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
[17] https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
<Arnaud> PROPOSED: Aim to publish ActivityStreams 2.0 FPWD by
TPAC
<sandro> +1 seems reasonable to me, as a goal!
<deiu> +1
<jasnell> +1
<ShaneHudson> +1
<oshepherd> +1
<MattMarum> +1
<harry> +1
<jtauber> +1
+1
<caseorganic> +1
<aaronpk> +1
<tommorris> +1
<tommorris> yep, "-1 trolling" doesn't count.
<Arnaud> RESOLVED: Aim to publish ActivityStreams 2.0 FPWD by
TPAC
<ShaneHudson> Is the conference code still 2625? I got thrown
off the call and it won't let me back in
Arnaud: Proposal to split spec into core parts and vocabularies
jasnell: Split documents on github, can roll back
... In order to simplify core document. Feedback was it's too
complex with too many optional parts
<ShaneHudson> That's better, thanks
jasnell: Optional parts are in vocabs part
<jasnell-github> [13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams] 15tommorris
opened pull request #9: fixing tantek's name
(06master...06patch-1) 02[18]http://git.io/HCFAiw
[18] http://git.io/HCFAiw
<tantek> is it possible to implement one without the other?
jasnell: Take a look at the repo now and comment from there
... Can implement basic AS functionality from core document
... Vocab document provides field names, but you don't *have*
to use them
<Arnaud> PROPOSAL: Split document into two documents: core and
vocab
<jasnell> +1
<oshepherd> +1
<MattMarum> +1
<jtauber> +1
<ShaneHudson> +1
<sandro> +0 sounds fine, but I haven't really thought about it
+0 I don't know..
<deiu> +1
<tommorris> +0 agree with sandro
<harry> +1
<aaronpk> +0 same
<tantek> +1 per deferring to editor's discretion at assessing
community consensus on this
<bblfish> ok updated my picture
Arnaud: If at some point someone thinks this doesn't make
sense, we can undo it
<Arnaud> RESOLVED: Split document into two documents: core and
vocab
Arnaud: We can reconsider things. (But not just because you
didn't get the result you want)
... Discussion about url / id / self
<Arnaud>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2014Au
g/0042.html
[19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2014Aug/0042.html
jasnell: In AS 1.0, no formal notion of links. Media links. url
property and other ways of linking to other content, but no
defined model. Led to interop conflicts in different
implementations. Some poeple used media links, iris, urls,
inconsistently
... In 2.0 link values have been formalised to add consistency
... Aligning AS to link relations model
<tommorris> RFC 5988 - [20]http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
[20] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
jasnell: Creates redundancy in some field definitions; self,
canonical, url
... url had a poorly defined definition in AS 1. Goal is
simplification.
... and consistency.
<oshepherd> I'll note that the problem with url in 1.0 is that
it reuses the "url" name for different things in different
places, sometimes in conflicting ways
jasnell: Current version of the spec on github has current
thoughts
<aaronpk> link for reference:
[21]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
[21] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
jasnell: Take a look at the spec, section on link resolution,
and offer feedback.
<tantek> isn't this issue already in github issues?
<tommorris> issue is at
[22]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
ues/5
[22] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5
<tantek> right, we already have a permalink for this issue,
with existing discussion and history
<sandro> issue: what should we do about
[23]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
ues/5
[23] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - What should we do about
[24]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
ues/5. Please complete additional details at
<[25]http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/1/edit>.
[24]
https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5.
[25] http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/1/edit%3E.
<tantek> I am against forking this issue to tracker
<tantek> I propose any more commentary on it to the *existing*
issue
<tantek> rather than forking the discussion to w3c
tantek: Already an open issue on github with existing
discussion
<aaronpk> agree with tantek
<harry> I'd keep it in github if possible - duplication leads
to errors.
<harry> A pointer for tracker to the github error is fine as
long as it includes the URI:
[26]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
ues/5
[26] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5
<ShaneHudson> I agree with tantek, but I would have an issue on
the tracker that points towards the existing Github issue
<harry> Which is what we have, so I guess we're OK :)
<sandro> close issue-1
<trackbot> Closed issue-1.
<sandro> (oops)
<aaronpk> can we just point to the issue on the wiki so people
can find it from this group?
<tommorris> on the issue there, I'd recommend that interested
party post comments on the Github tracker
jasnell: if you plan on submitting pull requests to the github
repo, please list your github id on the wiki page
... There's a github page on the wiki
... So pull requests can be verified.
<aaronpk> found the github page on the wiki:
[27]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Github
[27] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Github
bblfish: This type of issue - how to refer to something -
there's a whole infrastructure to use already, with work on LDP
and JSON-LD. So the solution could/should fit in nicely with
everything else
... Use follow your nose. Things in JSON-LD and RDF.
<tommorris> LDP for those who do't know is Linked Data Platform
Arnaud: In general, if people want to make suggestions on how
to change the spec, write it down. Email or put it on the wiki,
as a proposal for discussion on a call.
<bblfish> [28]https://www.w3.org/wiki/FollowYourNose
[28] https://www.w3.org/wiki/FollowYourNose
<Zakim> tantek, you wanted to add to the discussion about
working with existing tools and implementations
<bblfish> [29]http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
[29] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
tantek: Agrees with bblfish about looking at existing
implementations and tools. There's a broad variety. Incluidng
indiewebcamp, where many people are publishing permalinks,
using a url field
... draw from other sources of work, for interoperatbility.
... but not insisting on compatibility with anything in
particular, as there are a *lot* of things.
Use cases and requirements
<bblfish> yes, but that sounds like a way to make basic issues
a constant point of discussion
<jasnell> Suggestion: use wiki to document change proposals and
submit pull requests with specific spec changes. Every pull
request that is not editorial would be raised as an issue
Arnaud: the IG is chartered to do exploration work and figure
out use cases and requirements for social web in general.
<tantek> e.g. [30]http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry which
uses [31]http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card for author info
and both of which (h-entry and h-card) use a "url" field to
indicate permalinks and other profiles/versions.
[30] http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
[31] http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card
Arnaud: WG has to develop specs to address use cases and
requirements. WG scope is smaller than what the IG tackles. How
will we handle this?
... Currently one page under the WG on the wiki. Who is this
really owned by? IG refer to it from their wiki page.
... Have a free-for-all phase where people add their own use
cases. Then go through an approval phase to choose what to
tackle.
<tantek> we also have a lot of these documented and referenced
in our charter:
[32]http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html
[32] http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html
<harry> I'm not sure how that works out in W3C ACL space
<harry> but we can make a wiki anyone with a W3C account can
edit
<harry> so that should not be a huge problem if people want the
use-cases in that shared space.
<tantek> e.g.
[33]http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html#iwc
[33] http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html#iwc
jasnell: From IG call last week; focus was to organise into
task groups. One focused on use cases; architecture;
vocabulary; lisaon with other groups, including this WG
... jasnell is liason role volunteer
... Clarity on timelines on next call.
Arnaud: The IG don't have time constraints. They can come up
with any use cases and write them down. WG can't tackle all use
cases.
tommorris: Prioritise use cases that are actually used on the
web. Seems possible to work around real use cases rather than
hypothetical ones.
<tantek> +1 tommorris: use-cases actively *in use* on the web
should be prioritized
+1 prioritising in use
<jasnell> Question: can deciding on specific use cases to
address be out on the agenda for the tpac meeting?
<jasnell> Gives time between now and then to document and
discuss
<tantek> social web - assumes you want to be *social*, and do
so *on the web* :)
bblfish: What is the group trying to achieve? Framework for
being able to discuss distributed relations between people.
Decentralised communication/control. These are basic
requirements.
... so social networks are a basic requirement
<tommorris> rhiaro: tantek
tantek: We have the charter. We don't need to reason from the
name of the group. Focus on the charter.
<bblfish> User control of personal data: Some users would like
to have autonomous control over their own social data, and
share their data selectively across various systems. For an
example (based on the IndieWeb initiative), a user could host
their own blog and use federated status updates to both push
and pull their social information across a number of different
social networking sites.
tantek: Decide what we're working on based on items in the
charter.
<bblfish> from the chater
Arnaud: We can continue this discussion next week
<tantek> thanks bblfish - yes, referencing the charter is my
request rather than use of the name of the wg
Arnaud: Important to have use cases as background
<hhalpin> trackbot, meeting adjourned
<trackbot> Sorry, hhalpin, I don't understand 'trackbot,
meeting adjourned'. Please refer to
<[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
[34] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E
<hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
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Received on Tuesday, 26 August 2014 20:31:43 UTC