- From: Wilson, Kirk D <Kirk.Wilson@ca.com>
- Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:53:23 -0400
- To: "Sandy Gao" <sandygao@ca.ibm.com>
- Cc: <public-sml@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <F9576E62032243419E097FED5F0E75F303276268@USILMS12.ca.com>
Sandy, sorry for the delay in responding. Thank you for the explanation. It makes sense. I think the text will become a little once the change is made that Pratul and I have discussed as part of issue 5070-and separate the discussions of validator behavior and deref() function. Kirk Wilson, Ph.D. Research Staff Member CA Labs 603 823-7146 ________________________________ From: Sandy Gao [mailto:sandygao@ca.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:59 AM To: Wilson, Kirk D Cc: public-sml@w3.org Subject: RE: Its time to publish 2nd draft Kirk, Here's my take for the seemingly inconsistency. For SML validators, as soon as they know an element E is a null reference (or E is not a reference at all), it can (and MUST) decide not to take further reference-related actions on E. But deref() is a separate entity. It's defined as an extension XPath function, and may not be used *only* by SML validators. As a function, it MUST define its behavior for all circumstances, including when presented with a null reference, hence those bullets in 4.1.2.4. Thanks, Sandy Gao XML Technologies, IBM Canada Editor, W3C XML Schema WG <http://www.w3.org/XML/Schema/> Member, W3C SML WG <http://www.w3.org/XML/SML/> (1-905) 413-3255 T/L 969-3255 "Wilson, Kirk D" <Kirk.Wilson@ca.com> Sent by: public-sml-request@w3.org 2007-09-18 07:00 AM To Valentina Popescu/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA cc "Pratul Dublish" <Pratul.Dublish@microsoft.com>, <public-sml@w3.org>, <public-sml-request@w3.org> Subject RE: Its time to publish 2nd draft Valentina, Thanks for taking care of these points. Regarding the point for which you could not find the reference: in section 4.1.1.2: If a reference element is recognized as null, then processors MUST NOT attempt to resolve it. And in 4.1.2.3: A model validator <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2007/xml/sml/build/sml.html?content -type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#model_validator> MUST not attempt to resolve null references. But section 4.1.2.4 (defining deref() ) says: * The output node set contains no element node corresponding to R if any of the following conditions is true * . . . * R is a null reference Which seems to define an output (the same output for not finding a reference in a model) for dereferencing a null reference. Kirk Wilson, Ph.D. Research Staff Member CA Labs 603 823-7146 ________________________________ From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Valentina Popescu Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 12:07 AM To: Wilson, Kirk D Cc: Pratul Dublish; public-sml@w3.org; public-sml-request@w3.org Subject: RE: Its time to publish 2nd draft I fixed the following items : >> In the Introduction: a period is needed at the end of the bold sentence in item #2. >> I would recommend that the new example of using sml:nilref="true" in section 4.1 include the <Name> and <Grade> elements from the example above to more clearly make the distinction between xsi:nil="true" and sml:nilref="true" Perhaps some verbiage following the example would be helpful to further explain null references and contrast that with the sml:ref="false". >> Section 4.2.1 states, "if a model validator chooses to represent references with the URI scheme". Since when does the validator "choose to represent references"? Isn't that the role of the document producer? <vp>replaced with " if a model author chooses to ...''</vp> >>In SML-IF, the following statement is made in section 2.2: Did not find the reference to : >> Why do we say that a validator MUST not try to deref a null reference when in fact we define an output (0 nodes) for a null reference? Left unchanged : >> I would suggest changing all the names ending in "...RefType" in the example in section 4.4.1 to simply "...Reference". <vp>All types in this sample are called somethingType, for that reason I guess we should keep the 'Type' suffix for the reference types as well</vp> The rest are non-editorial issues Thank you, Valentina Popescu IBM Toronto Labs Phone: (905)413-2412 (tie-line 969) Fax: (905) 413-4850 "Wilson, Kirk D" <Kirk.Wilson@ca.com> Sent by: public-sml-request@w3.org 09/17/2007 08:11 PM To "Pratul Dublish" <Pratul.Dublish@microsoft.com>, <public-sml@w3.org> cc Subject RE: Its time to publish 2nd draft Here are some comments-that I was able to complete on the plane. (Again, regrets regarding this week's meeting; I will not be able to make it. The Abstract still mentions XML Schema "profile." (Also don't we have to also clean up using "profile" with regard to Schematron?) In the Introduction: a period is needed at the end of the bold sentence in item #2. IMHO, the definition of Rules in section 5 should restrict XML Schema to just version 1.0, since 1.1 now contains a simple constraint language. I would recommend that the new example of using sml:nilref="true" in section 4.1 include the <Name> and <Grade> elements from the example above to more clearly make the distinction between xsi:nil="true" and sml:nilref="true" Perhaps some verbiage following the example would be helpful to further explain null references and contrast that with the sml:ref="false". Two questions: 1. Something to think about for the future: What does "resolves" apply to: a scheme or a reference? Well, both, which makes the use of "reference" float between these two levels. I would suggest that reference elements refer while schemes point. I think making this distinction will alleviate any confusion that may arise from the current text. 2. Given the discussion we had about validators vs. consumers with regard dereferencing behaviors, why MUST a validator provide an implementation for deref()? A validator must apply "strict" validation to references, which is different behavior from deref. Why do we say that a validator MUST not try to deref a null reference when in fact we define an output (0 nodes) for a null reference? Section 4.2.1 states, "if a model validator chooses to represent references with the URI scheme". Since when does the validator "choose to represent references"? Isn't that the role of the document producer? I would suggest changing all the names ending in "...RefType" in the example in section 4.4.1 to simply "...Reference". In SML-IF, the following statement is made in section 2.2: See section 6, "Equivalence," and section 5 "Reference Resolution" in particular. There currently are no sections 5 and 6 in the document. Kirk Wilson, Ph.D. Research Staff Member CA Labs 603 823-7146 ________________________________ From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Pratul Dublish Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 4:38 PM To: public-sml@w3.org Subject: Its time to publish 2nd draft All We are close to our target date for publishing the second draft (which is 9/19). The editorial team is working on updating the spec to reflect the changes that were approved in yesterday's call and expect to have a draft ready by Monday, 9/17. They have already made several changes and these are ready for review by the members. Please review the following changes made by the editorial team and send in any request for changes at the earliest and no later than 5 PM PST on 9/18 4630 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4630> Clarify relation of SML and XML 1.0 vs 1.1 4638 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4638> Conformance section needed 4647 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4647> smlerr:output - why exclude node sets including text node... 4686 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4686> Use schema terminorlogies to describe "xml schema valid" 4802 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4802> For bullet points 4,5 (...XPath expression must conform t... 4803 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4803> Edit bullet point (A pattern MUST be evaluated for an ins... 4884 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4884> update the definition of a null reference to include the ... Thanks! Pratul
Received on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 22:53:35 UTC