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Re: Captioning Zoom Calls [was: Re: Agenda for Silver meeting of Tuesday, 12 May 2020]

From: Jeanne Spellman <jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:20:00 -0400
To: Makoto Ueki <makoto.ueki@gmail.com>, lucy@accessaces.com
Cc: Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com>, Jennifer Chadwick <jcha@siteimprove.com>, David Fazio <dfazio@helixopp.com>, "Dirks, Kim (TR Product)" <kimberlee.dirks@thomsonreuters.com>, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>, Silver TF <public-silver@w3.org>
Message-ID: <424eca7b-9abb-7c5f-c9d3-42203864401e@spellmanconsulting.com>
I think we all agree that captioning would be helpful for meeting 
attendees.  I certainly would appreciate and use it myself, as I find 
reading less fatiguing than listening.

However, we presently don't have an a disability accommodation request.  
It is more difficult to find funding for captioning without an 
accommodation request. I would be delighted to have people with hearing 
disabilities participate in the group. It is a chicken-and-egg problem, 
because people don't want to participate unless they have an accommodation.

Captions would not replace IRC, however.  Captions would not provide an 
archived meeting record, which we need by W3C advice to working groups.  
And I don't think we should dismiss that need. On many many occasions, I 
have searched the W3C archives for meeting minutes.  We also would not 
want the official meeting minutes to be the result of captions, as it 
would preclude any casual or confidential conversation that we did not 
want in the permanent record.  I personally would find it exhausting to 
"always be on the record".  IRC minutes are intended to be more of a 
summary of main points than everything that is said.

There are  two problems (as I understand it):

  * Finding a free captioning service or autocaptioning service, or
    finding a captioning service that a W3C member company was willing
    to pay for.
  * Setting up someone in the group as a "host"  to be able to start the
    service each meeting.

These are both solvable problems.  If anyone knows of a free 
auto-captioning service, or works for a company that has a pro Zoom 
membership and a relationship with a captioning company that would be 
willing to include our Zoom calls as part of the service, please let me 
know.  Michael is working on the "host" problem from the W3C end.  I 
have looked at several "free captioning services" and the ones I have 
seen are attached to a commitment to the provider of the captions for 
other paid services. I am happy to be wrong about this, if anyone knows 
of one.

W3C is experimenting with captioning for a few meetings.  I don't know 
how the funding was arranged for the meetings, but I am watching the 
results.  So the other option we have is to wait and see what W3C 
decides to do and how it will be paid for.  But until something else is 
decided within W3C, and lacking an accommodation request, we will need 
to pursue solutions ourselves.

I have been searching the Zoom site and have not found auto-captioning 
as a service they provide. Again, I would love to be wrong about that.


On 5/12/2020 9:33 PM, Makoto Ueki wrote:
> Hi Michael and all,
> Thank you so much for checking in. I thought it was the automated 
> captioning by using voice recognition technology. I turn the closed 
> caption on when I use Google Meet or Skype. It really helpful and 
> useful. I thought Zoom has the same kind of functionality. Now I 
> understood it was not unfortunately.
> Okay. I'm gonna try to use UD Talk which is a free application. It 
> provides real-time automated caption and automated translation. I use 
> it at seminars, conferences and webinar I host and it works very well. 
> I've never used the app for online meetings. But it should work.
> https://udtalk.jp/en/
> And it might be another discussion whether IRC works well or not for 
> attendees. IRC chat is helpful, but it looks it put a burden on 
> attendees who scribe. We need to keep the discussion if needed. 
> Technology may allow us to have more inclusive meeting and reduce the 
> burden of attendees.
> It seems there are some services out there.
> https://support.3playmedia.com/hc/en-us/articles/360034239913-Zoom-Schedule-Live-Auto-Captioning-for-a-Zoom-Webinar 
> https://www.rev.com/blog/rev-live-captions-for-zoom-beta-program
> https://otter.ai/starter-guide?article=generateNotes#sync-meeting-recordings 
> Thanks,
> Makoto
> 2020年5月13日(水) 4:06 lucia greco <lucy@accessaces.com 
> <mailto:lucy@accessaces.com>>:
>     lucia Greco
>     http://accessaces.com
>     follow me on twitter @accessaces
>     On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 8:51 AM Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com
>     <mailto:lauriat@google.com>> wrote:
>         Definitely +1, especially as we've had more than one person
>         note difficulty understanding speech on our calls this week
>         alone. Thanks, Michael! And thank you, Makoto, for raising this!
>         -Shawn
>         On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:42 AM Jennifer Chadwick
>         <jcha@siteimprove.com <mailto:jcha@siteimprove.com>> wrote:
>             Thanks, David.
>             +1
>             Perfect Your Digital Presence
>             *Jennifer Chadwick, CPACC, CUA*
>             Lead Accessibility Strategist and Product Expert, North
>             America
>             Siteimprove <http://www.siteimprove.com/>
>             110 Yonge Street, Suite 700   |   Toronto, Ontario M5C 1T4
>             Direct +1 647 952 0364 <tel:(647)%20952-0364> |  Mobile +1
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>             <mailto:jcha@siteimprove.com>
>             Member of World Wide Web Consortium W 3 C
>             <https://www.w3.org/>member of the International
>             Association of Accessibility Professionals
>             <https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/>
>             register now for our Digital Global Accessibility
>             Awareness Day celebration on May 21st.
>             <https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/3415888660209/WN_bN-pxiQlRtKBraUJJnUvmQ>
>             *From:* David Fazio <dfazio@helixopp.com
>             <mailto:dfazio@helixopp.com>>
>             *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2020 11:38 AM
>             *To:* Dirks, Kim (TR Product)
>             <kimberlee.dirks@thomsonreuters.com
>             <mailto:kimberlee.dirks@thomsonreuters.com>>
>             *Cc:* Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org
>             <mailto:cooper@w3.org>>; Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com
>             <mailto:lauriat@google.com>>; Makoto Ueki
>             <makoto.ueki@gmail.com <mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com>>;
>             Silver TF <public-silver@w3.org
>             <mailto:public-silver@w3.org>>; Jeanne Spellman
>             <jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com
>             <mailto:jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com>>
>             *Subject:* Re: Captioning Re: Agenda for Silver meeting of
>             Tuesday, 12 May 2020
>             +1 to Makoto and Kim. It would help for us cognitively
>             impaired Also, which I am. If we need accessibility
>             reasons I would be one of the disabilities it would benefit
>             Scribing is sporadic, not very well articulated summaries
>             of speakers comments. I think it’s not very useful, for
>             captioning purposes. I believe Janina mentioned a few
>             months ago that zoom has a plugin for auto captioning.
>             This message was Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse any
>             typographic errors.
>                 On May 12, 2020, at 8:31 AM, Dirks, Kim (TR Product)
>                 <kimberlee.dirks@thomsonreuters.com
>                 <mailto:kimberlee.dirks@thomsonreuters.com>> wrote:
>                 Hi Michael,
>                 I’m a big fan of captions and would like to see the
>                 W3C explore options to get them active. Also wondering
>                 if we could replace scribing with captions?
>                 Thanks!
>                 Kim
>                 *From:* Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org
>                 <mailto:cooper@w3.org>>
>                 *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2020 10:25 AM
>                 *To:* Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com
>                 <mailto:lauriat@google.com>>; Makoto Ueki
>                 <makoto.ueki@gmail.com <mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com>>
>                 *Cc:* Silver TF <public-silver@w3.org
>                 <mailto:public-silver@w3.org>>; Jeanne Spellman
>                 <jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com
>                 <mailto:jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com>>
>                 *Subject:* Captioning Re: Agenda for Silver meeting of
>                 Tuesday, 12 May 2020
>                 Closed captioning is enabled in calls I have set up.
>                 It has to be turned on in a given call by the host
>                 (me, unless I find a way to designate someone else).
>                 Once enabled, we can assign someone in the call to
>                 enter captions, or enable a third party service. In
>                 the first case I do not know if participant-entered
>                 captions would be more meaningful than the IRC
>                 scribing we already do. For third party services, I do
>                 not know if W3C has contracts with existing services
>                 nor what the costs would be. W3C would do something
>                 about that if needed to support accessibility of a
>                 given call. I think the organization would be less
>                 likely to take on those costs for language
>                 comprehension support (unless clearly accessibility
>                 related), though if there is sufficient demand it's
>                 certainly something to consider. Michael
>                 On 12/05/2020 9:28 a.m., Shawn Lauriat wrote:
>                     Makoto,
>                     I definitely support this, though I don't know how
>                     to set it up. Jeanne? Michael?
>                     -Shawn
>                     On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:10 PM Makoto Ueki
>                     <makoto.ueki@gmail.com
>                     <mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>                         Shawn, Jeanne and Michael
>                         I'm wondering if it is possible to use Zoom's
>                         "Closed Captioning" during our meetings. It
>                         will make it easier for those who don't speak
>                         English regularly (like me) to understand and
>                         follow discussions in English. And it'll allow
>                         web accessibility experts who are deaf or hard
>                         of hearing to join our group.
>                         I've been thinking about this for many years.
>                         Now we just started using Zoom which has
>                         "Closed Captioning" functionality. Will it be
>                         possible??
>                         Thanks,
>                         Makoto
>                         2020年5月12日(火) 0:00 Shawn Lauriat
>                         <lauriat@google.com <mailto:lauriat@google.com>>:
>                             agenda+ Follow-up on action items from
>                             virtual face-to-face
>                             agenda+ Check-in with subgroups
>                             <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Ftask-forces%2Fsilver%2Fwiki%2FMain_Page%23Silver_Guideline_Content_.28Active.29&data=02%7C01%7Cjcha%40siteimprove.com%7Cf1d1396310474f14747308d7f68a8b54%7Cad30e5bc301d40dba10a0e8d40abe0f9%7C1%7C0%7C637248947233833126&sdata=GaTKnOQjqxVvBvlSTepP26iLVeHduMMDHZz8HnJlTaU%3D&reserved=0>,
>                             refer to the Guideline Checklist
>                             <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1tQHgVFaJYS1WWs9BKucZxWboMNVuclvdNqnQuzPbWwY%2Fedit%23heading%3Dh.39jenvb4rhu&data=02%7C01%7Cjcha%40siteimprove.com%7Cf1d1396310474f14747308d7f68a8b54%7Cad30e5bc301d40dba10a0e8d40abe0f9%7C1%7C0%7C637248947233833126&sdata=u%2BfJXeUK30G%2BD3PuZmk1MAl%2BvmzDDUUyBkacUZrOFdU%3D&reserved=0>
>                             agenda+ Decide on new migration guideline
>                             to work on
>                             *New* tuesday call info
>                             <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F08%2Ftelecon-info_silver-tue&data=02%7C01%7Cjcha%40siteimprove.com%7Cf1d1396310474f14747308d7f68a8b54%7Cad30e5bc301d40dba10a0e8d40abe0f9%7C1%7C0%7C637248947233843119&sdata=ZYCuAoVl1b2bmVDywk55cCsyuW1DyJuhXpZ8rXDq4d4%3D&reserved=0> -
>                             please note that we've moved to Zoom!
>                             We'll monitor IRC for any reports of
>                             issues, and we still have WebEx available
>                             as a fallback option if anyone does have
>                             trouble dialing in.
Received on Thursday, 21 May 2020 16:20:19 UTC

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