- From: Léonie Watson <lw@tetralogical.com>
- Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:49:56 +0100
- To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>, "Hall, Charles (DET-MRM)" <Charles.Hall@mrm-mccann.com>
- Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, Silver Task Force <public-silver@w3.org>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
I like the continuum model JF proposes. It's a more accurate reflection of the web than a static A, B, or C model. It also gives people a clear idea of how much they need to do to reach the next range/level, and that is much more encouraging. I also like the idea of making quality a factor in the points calculation. Taking captions as an example, and with the caveat that I haven't given this much thought, it might be that points are awarded in increasing numbers for: automated captions, human captions, human captions with personalisation capability (for position, font size etc.). Léonie. On 21/06/2019 23:36, John Foliot wrote: > Hi Charles, > > I for one am under the same understanding, and I see it as far more > granular than just Bronze, Silver or Gold plateaus, but that rather, > through the accumulation of points (by doing good things) you can > advance from Bronze, to Silver to Gold - not for individual pages, but > rather **for your site**. (I've come to conceptualize it as similar to > your FICO score, which numerically improves or degrades over time, yet > your score is still always inside of a "range" from Bad to Excellent: > increasing your score from 638 to 687 is commendable and a good stretch, > yet you are still only - and remain - in the "Fair" range, so stretch > harder still). > > image.png > [alt: a semi-circle graph showing the 4 levels of FICO scoring: Bad, > Fair, Good, and Excellent, along with the range of score values > associated to each section. Bad is a range of 300 points to 629 points, > Fair ranges from 630 to 689 points, Good ranges from 690 to 719 points, > and excellent ranges from 720 to 850 points.] > > I've also arrived at the notion that your score is never going to be a > "one-and-done" numeric value, but that your score will change based on > the most current data available* (in part because we all know that web > sites [sic] are living breathing organic things, with content changes > being pushed at regular - in some cases daily or hourly - basis.) > > This then also leads me to conclude that your "Accessibility Score" will > be a floating points total with those points being impacted not only by > specific "techniques", but equally (if not more importantly) by > functional outcomes. And so the model of: > > * /Bronze: EITHER provide AD or transcript____/ > * /Silver: provide AD and transcript____/ > * /Gold: Provide live transcript or live AD./ > > > ...feels rather simplistic to me. Much of our documentation */_speaks of > scores_/* (which I perceive to be numeric in nature), while what > Alastair is proposing is simply Good, Better, Best - with no actual > "score" involved. > > Additionally, nowhere in Alastair's metric is there a measurement for > "quality" of the caption, transcript or audio description (should there > be? I believe yes), nor for that matter (in this particular instance) a > recognition of the two very varied approaches to providing 'support > assets' to the video: in-band or out-of-band (where in-band = the assets > are bundled inside of the MP4 wrapper, versus out-of-band, where > captions and Audio Descriptions are declared via the <track> element.) > From a "functional" perspective, providing the assets in-band, while > slightly harder to do production-wise, is a more robust technique (for > lots of reasons), so... do we reward authors with a "better" score if > they use the in-band method? And if yes, how many more "points" do they > get (and why that number?) If no, why not? For transcripts, does > providing the transcript as structured HTML earn you more points over > providing the transcript as a .txt file? A PDF? (WCAG 2.x doesn't seem > to care about that) Should it? > > (* This is already a very long email, so I will just state that I have > some additional ideas about stale-dating data as well, as I suspect a > cognitive walk-through result from 4 years ago likely has little-to-no > value today...) > > ****************** > In fact, if we're handing out points, how many points **do** you get for > minimal functional requirement for "Accessible Media" (aka "Bronze"), > and what do I need to do to increase my score to Silver (not on a single > asset, but across the "range" of content - a.k.a.pages - scoped by your > conformance claim) versus Gold? > > Do you get the same number of points for ensuring that the language of > the page has been declared (which to my mind is the easiest SC to meet) > - does providing the language of the document have the same impact on > users as ensuring that Audio Descriptions are present and accurate? If > (like me) you believe one to be far more important than the other, how > many points do either requirement start with (as a representation of > "perfect" for that requirement)? For that matter, do we count up or down > in our scoring (counting up = minimal score that improves, counting down > = maximum score that degrades)? > > (ProTip: I'd also revisit the MAUR > <https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/> for ideas on how to > improve your score for Accessible Media, which is more than just > captions and audio description). > > Then, of course, is the conundrum of "page scoring" versus "site > scoring", where a video asset is (likely) displayed on a "page", and > perhaps there are multiple videos on multiple pages, with accessibility > support ranging from "Pretty good" on one example, to "OMG that is > horrible" on another example... how do we score that on a site-level > basis? If I have 5 videos on my site, and one has no captions, > transcripts or Audio Descriptions (AD), two have captions and no AD or > transcripts, one has captions and a transcript but no AD, and one has > all the required bits (caption, AD, transcript)... what's my score? Am I > Gold, Bronze, or Silver? Why? > > And if I clean up 3 of those five videos above, but leave the other two > as-is, do I see an increase in my score? If yes, by how much? Why? Do I > get more points for cleaning up the video that lacks AD _and_ transcript > versus not as many points for cleaning up the the video that just needs > audio descriptions? Does adding audio descriptions accrue more points > than just adding a transcript? Can points, as numeric values, also > include decimal points? (i.e. 16.25 'points' out of a maximum number > available of 25)? Is this the path we are on? > > *Scoring is *everything** if we are moving to a Good, Better, Best model > for all of our web accessibility conformance reporting. Saying you are > at "Silver", without knowing explicitly how you got there will be a > major hurdle that we'll need to be able to explain. > > It is for these reasons that I have volunteered to help work on the > conformance model, as I am of the opinion that all the other migration > work will eventually run into this scoring issue as a major blocker: no > matter which existing SC I consider, I soon arrive at variants of the > questions above (and more), all related to scalability, techniques, > impact on different user-groups, and our move from page conformance > reporting to site conformance reporting, and a sliding scale of "points" > that we've yet to tackle - points that will come to represent Bronze, > Silver and Gold. > > JF > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 12:53 PM Hall, Charles (DET-MRM) > <Charles.Hall@mrm-mccann.com <mailto:Charles.Hall@mrm-mccann.com>> wrote: > > I understand the logical parallel. ____ > > __ __ > > However, my understanding (perhaps influenced by my own intent) of > the point system is not directly proportional to the number of > features (supported by methods) added or by the difficulty > associated with adding them, but instead based on meeting functional > needs. In this example, transcription, captioning and audio > description (recorded) may all be implemented but still only have > sufficient points to earn silver. While addressing the content > itself to be more understandable by people with cognitive issues or > intersectional needs would be required for sufficient points to earn > gold. The difference being people and not methods.____ > > __ __ > > Am I alone in this view?____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > *Charles Hall* // Senior UX Architect____ > > __ __ > > charles.hall@mrm-mccann.com > <mailto:charles.hall@mrm-mccann.com?subject=Note%20From%20Signature>____ > > w 248.203.8723____ > > m 248.225.8179____ > > 360 W Maple Ave, Birmingham MI 48009 ____ > > mrm-mccann.com <https://www.mrm-mccann.com/>____ > > __ __ > > MRM//McCann____ > > Relationship Is Our Middle Name____ > > __ __ > > Ad Age Agency A-List 2016, 2017, 2019____ > > Ad Age Creativity Innovators 2016, 2017____ > > Ad Age B-to-B Agency of the Year 2018____ > > North American Agency of the Year, Cannes 2016____ > > Leader in Gartner Magic Quadrant 2017, 2018, 2019____ > > Most Creatively Effective Agency Network in the World, Effie 2018, > 2019____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > *From: *Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com > <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> > *Date: *Friday, June 21, 2019 at 12:01 PM > *To: *Silver Task Force <public-silver@w3.org > <mailto:public-silver@w3.org>> > *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Conformance and method 'levels' > *Resent-From: *Silver Task Force <public-silver@w3.org > <mailto:public-silver@w3.org>> > *Resent-Date: *Friday, June 21, 2019 at 12:01 PM____ > > __ __ > > Hi everyone,____ > > ____ > > I think this is a useful thread to be aware of when thinking about > conformance and how different methods might be set at different > levels:____ > > https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/782 > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wcag_issues_782&d=DwMGaQ&c=Ftw_YSVcGmqQBvrGwAZugGylNRkk-uER0-5bY94tjsc&r=FbsK8fvOGBHiAasJukQr6i2dv-WpJzmR-w48cl75l3c&m=qRlBlL2XbaOAr9ZQ1gk036BFzRHfv3et7ZuRCfnYttk&s=81tZlSYylHRs1Awy147BMGnUzy0MuO6s7Qk5IO0FhoU&e=> > ____ > > ____ > > It is about multimedia access, so the 1.2.x section in WCAG 2.x. You > might think that it is fairly straightforward as the solutions are > fairly cut & dried (captions, transcripts, AD etc.)____ > > ____ > > However, the tricky bit is at what level you require different > solutions. ____ > > ____ > > If you had a guideline such as “A user does not need to see in order > to understand visual multimedia content”, then Patrick’s levelling > in one of the comments > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wcag_issues_782-23issuecomment-2D504038948&d=DwMGaQ&c=Ftw_YSVcGmqQBvrGwAZugGylNRkk-uER0-5bY94tjsc&r=FbsK8fvOGBHiAasJukQr6i2dv-WpJzmR-w48cl75l3c&m=qRlBlL2XbaOAr9ZQ1gk036BFzRHfv3et7ZuRCfnYttk&s=eQu0fdZeTflKCDpdR_3mguGA09aq52UmWnQTBdPRhjE&e=> > makes sense:____ > > * Bronze: EITHER provide AD or transcript____ > * Silver: provide AD and transcript ____ > * Gold: Provide live transcript or live AD.____ > > ____ > > I raise this as if you read the thread, you’ll see how the levels > impacted the drafting of the guidelines, and I think we’ll have a > similar (or more complex?) dynamic for the scoring in Silver, and > how methods are drafted.____ > > ____ > > Kind regards,____ > > ____ > > -Alastair____ > > ____ > > -- ____ > > ____ > > www.nomensa.com > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nomensa.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=Ftw_YSVcGmqQBvrGwAZugGylNRkk-uER0-5bY94tjsc&r=FbsK8fvOGBHiAasJukQr6i2dv-WpJzmR-w48cl75l3c&m=qRlBlL2XbaOAr9ZQ1gk036BFzRHfv3et7ZuRCfnYttk&s=KYOhqBbA2ZqPfWqucl5pHqD50APEkM1wkeBHHBrRswc&e=> > / @alastc____ > > ____ > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to > receive this message for the intended recipient), you may not use, > copy, disseminate or disclose to anyone the message or any > information contained in the message. If you have received the > message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and > delete the message. Thank you very much. > > > > -- > *John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative > Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good > deque.com <http://deque.com/> > -- @TetraLogical TetraLogical.com
Received on Saturday, 22 June 2019 10:50:32 UTC