Re: FHIR as JSON-LD? [was Re: Minutes of last week's (Dec 2) HL7 ITS RDF Subgroup / W3C HCLS COI call -- Review of FHIR ontology approaches (cont.)]

+10

On Tuesday, December 16, 2014, David Booth <david@dbooth.org> wrote:

> That reminds me: We should look at the possibility of developing a JSON-LD
> @context for FHIR JSON, to allow it to be directly interpreted as JSON-LD
> (and thus as RDF).
>
> For those unfamiliar with JSON-LD, it is JSON that has an additional
> "@context" annotation that allows it to be interpreted as RDF.
> http://json-ld.org/
> http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/
> Thus, a JSON-LD document is both JSON and RDF at the same time.  In many
> cases JSON-LD can be created out of JSON merely by adding the appropriate
> @context.
>
> A JSON-LD approach could be beneficial because it would provide a very
> direct way of translating to RDF.  However, it could also impact details of
> the FHIR ontology approach that we decide to take, to ensure that RDF
> instance data created this way conforms to the FHIR ontology.
>
> David
>
> On 12/15/2014 10:02 AM, Lloyd McKenzie wrote:
>
>> One of the things we will need to decide on is which one(s) of the many
>> different RDF representations would we expect servers that support FHIR
>> RDF to be able to consume.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Lloyd McKenzie
>>
>> +1-780-993-9501
>>
>>
>>
>> Note: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions
>> expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my clients
>> nor those of the organizations with whom I hold governance positions.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 5:34 PM, David Booth <david@dbooth.org
>> <mailto:david@dbooth.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Bob,
>>
>>     On 12/14/2014 06:34 PM, Robert Leif wrote:
>>
>>         Hi All,
>>
>>         Two questions need to be answered:
>>
>>         Can RDF schema interface with XSD? This includes importing
>>         complexTypes
>>         between the two languages.
>>
>>
>>     RDF Schema is very different from XML Schema.  The name "RDF Schema"
>>     was probably a poor choice of terminology in some sense, because RDF
>>     Schema doesn't define or constrain data models or datatypes in the
>>     same way that XML Schema does.
>>
>>     RDF does routinely use the basic XSD datatypes, such as xsd:string,
>>     xsd:dateTime, etc.  And although technically RDF could also
>>     represent XML complex types directly, one doesn't normally do that
>>     in RDF. Instead in RDF one would typically represent the equivalent
>>     information using a set of assertions (triples) that explicitly
>>     represent the individual pieces of information and their
>>     relationships to each other, rather than being implied by element
>>     nesting and the like as is done in XML.
>>
>>     One of the most unfortunate aspects of RDF's history is that the
>>     first standard serialization of RDF was in XML, and this caused a
>>     lot of people to erroneously assume that RDF is a form of XML, but
>>     it isn't. There are several different serializations of RDF --
>>     including RDF/XML, N-Triples, Turtle (best for human readability)
>>     and JSON-LD -- and RDF captures the information content, independent
>>     of the serialization.
>>
>>     Anyway, the bottom line is that RDF works well with XML's basic data
>>     types, but XML complex types typically would be split apart into
>>     sets of individual assertions in RDF, rather than being treated as
>>     single data items.
>>
>>
>>         What data structures in RDF cannot be coded in XSD?
>>
>>
>>     RDF doesn't have data structures in the same way that programming
>>     languages or XSD have them, but it does have classes and "objects"
>>     of those classes that can have properties.
>>
>>         Because I wanted to
>>         avoid potential interfacing problems and learning another
>> language,
>>
>>
>>     To use RDF effectively you would need to learn a bit about it,
>>     because it is fundamentally different from typical data formats like
>>     XML or JSON.  You might want to take a look at "Key Things You Need
>>     to Know About RDF", from this year's Semantic Technology Conference:
>>     http://dbooth.org/2014/key/__key-slides.pdf
>>     <http://dbooth.org/2014/key/key-slides.pdf>
>>     or at some of the tutorials in the Semantic University site run by
>>     Cambridge Semantics:
>>     http://www.cambridgesemantics.__com/semantic-university/rdf-__101
>>     <http://www.cambridgesemantics.com/semantic-university/rdf-101>
>>
>>         for CytometryML (www.cytometryml.org
>>         <http://www.cytometryml.org>) a schema that provided the
>>         relationships I needed. A copy of a preprint of this paper (Ref.1)
>>         together with the XSD Schemas is on the CytometryML website
>>         (http://www.cytometryml.org/). The ZIP of those schemas is
>>         located in
>>         the http://www.cytometryml.org/__zip/Relations_18May2013.zip
>>         <http://www.cytometryml.org/zip/Relations_18May2013.zip> file.
>> The
>>         substitution of elements for attributes permitted the reuse of
>>         many data
>>         structures, which I believe resulted in a considerable increase
>>         in the
>>         development of relationships. I believe that XSD can be extended
>> to
>>         include the capabilities of RDF and other XML languages in a
>> manner
>>         similar to the way Schematron’s assertions have already been
>>         incorporated into XSD1.1.
>>
>>
>>     You might be able to extend XML that way, and it would be
>>     interesting to see what you could come up with, but if you went down
>>     that path I suspect you'd find at some point that you were ending up
>>     re-inventing RDF.
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     David Booth
>>
>>
>>         Bob Leif
>>
>>         1)R. C. Leif and Stephanie H. Leif, “A shared standard for
>>         cytometry and
>>         pathology,” Paper No.: 8587-50, Tracking No.: PW13B-BO400-86,
>>         Symposium:
>>         PW13B SPIE BiOS, Conference: Imaging, Manipulation, and Analysis
>> of
>>         Biomolecules, Cells, and Tissues XI 2013 (2013).
>>
>>         *From:*owner-its@lists.hl7.org <mailto:owner-its@lists.hl7.org>
>>         [mailto:owner-its@lists.hl7.__org
>>         <mailto:owner-its@lists.hl7.org>] *On
>>         Behalf Of *Lloyd McKenzie
>>         *Sent:* Saturday, December 13, 2014 3:39 PM
>>         *To:* Vipul Kashyap
>>         *Cc:* David Booth; w3c semweb HCLS; HL7 ITS
>>         *Subject:* Re: Minutes of last week's (Dec 2) HL7 ITS RDF
>>         Subgroup / W3C
>>
>>         HCLS COI call -- Review of FHIR ontology approaches (cont.)
>>
>>         Hi Vipul,
>>
>>              To me, your first two points go together.  The only reason
>>         to do an
>>              RDF representation is to support implementations that want
>>         to make
>>              use of semantic web technologies for inference purposes.
>>
>>              VK> Partially agree with you. Another reason for taking up
>>         RDF/OWL
>>              representation is to make these descriptions (business,
>>         clinical)
>>              user friendly. I have added this requirement to the wiki
>> page.
>>
>>         Then we have a different notion of "user friendly" :>  The RDF
>>         syntax
>>         will almost certainly be less friendly for consumption than the
>> XML
>>         syntax.  And in the end, the users shouldn't be consuming any of
>> the
>>         syntaxes directly - they'll be consuming interfaces that systems
>>         use to
>>         expose the content, not the syntax directly.
>>
>>              I wouldn't describe either as requirements for the syntax
>>         though.  A
>>              requirement would be a particular type of inference that we
>>         wanted
>>              to enable (or wanted to optimize for).
>>
>>              VK> I am assuming that demonstrating value proposition is a
>> key
>>              requirement for the effort. Otherwise, we will not have
>>         uptake in
>>              the broader community.
>>
>>                        Not sure if I missed it – have we decided to
>>         limit our
>>              requirements to the syntax? Any particular reason?
>>
>>         I don't expect we'll see broad uptake of the RDF syntax.  It
>>         will remain
>>         a specialized syntax for those wishing to use SPARQL, make
>>         inferences,
>>         etc.  That's a small fraction of the overall community.
>>         However, if we
>>         build it into the reference implementations, it'll be
>>         straightforward
>>         for most servers to expose the RDF to those clients that
>>         actually need it.
>>
>>              In terms of your third point, there's two different ways we
>>         could
>>              interpret this.  One would be to say that we'll convert
>>         both FHIR
>>              structures and FHIR vocabulary into RDF and include the
>> linkage
>>              between them as part of the class model.  I'm definitely
>>         on-side
>>              with that.  The second way would be to say that we'll be
>>         able to
>>              easily integrate existing ontologies from other code
>>         systems such as
>>              SNOMED with the FHIR structure ontology.  I think that's a
>> much
>>              tougher thing to do, though it may be possible in some
>>         cases.  I'd
>>              like to treat it as a secondary objective, but am ok with
>>         having it
>>              on the table.
>>
>>              VK> I am in agreement with your first approach. One
>>         approach is to
>>              model both FHIR Resources and Terminology Concepts as
>>         classes. For
>>              e.g.., we could model “Condition” as a class with
>>         “Diabetes” as a
>>              subclass with some kind of relationship (sameAs,
>>         subClassOf) between
>>              FHIR:Diabetes and Snomed:Diabetes, MedDRA:Diabetes,
>>         ICD11:Diabetes
>>
>>         The relationship would be that the concept represented by
>>         Condition.code
>>         was a specialization of Snomed:Diabetes, etc. (though it's
>>         unlikely the
>>         name would be that user-friendly).  It certainly wouldn't be a
>>         link to
>>         the overall class.
>>
>>              ---Vipul
>>
>>              (Feel free to add your thoughts to the wiki page.)
>>
>>              Lloyd
>>
>>
>>              ------------------------------__--------
>>              Lloyd McKenzie
>>
>>         +1-780-993-9501 <tel:%2B1-780-993-9501> <tel:%2B1-780-993-9501>
>>
>>
>>
>>              Note: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and
>>         positions
>>              expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of
>> my
>>              clients nor those of the organizations with whom I hold
>>         governance
>>              positions.
>>
>>              On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Vipul Kashyap
>>              <kashyap.vipul@gmail.com <mailto:kashyap.vipul@gmail.com>
>>         <mailto:kashyap.vipul@gmail.__com
>>         <mailto:kashyap.vipul@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>              Good list, Lloyd. Would like to suggest some more additions
>>              (apologies if these have already been suggested).
>>
>>              ·Clearly articulate the value of the new RDF/RDFS/OWL
>>         representation
>>              over the current XML/JSON representation
>>
>>              ·Enablement of OWL/RDFS inference – so we could identify
>>         use cases
>>              that cannot be easily done based on the XML/JSON
>> representation
>>
>>              ·A common OWL/RDFS representation for information model
>>         elements
>>              _and_ medical terminology concepts.
>>
>>              Thoughts. Suggestions?
>>
>>              ---Vipul
>>
>>              *From:*Lloyd McKenzie [mailto:lloyd@lmckenzie.com
>>         <mailto:lloyd@lmckenzie.com>
>>              <mailto:lloyd@lmckenzie.com <mailto:lloyd@lmckenzie.com>>]
>>              *Sent:* Monday, December 08, 2014 1:36 PM
>>              *To:* David Booth
>>              *Cc:* w3c semweb HCLS; its@lists.hl7.org
>>         <mailto:its@lists.hl7.org> <mailto:its@lists.hl7.org
>>         <mailto:its@lists.hl7.org>>
>>              *Subject:* Re: Minutes of last week's (Dec 2) HL7 ITS RDF
>>         Subgroup /
>>              W3C HCLS COI call -- Review of FHIR ontology approaches
>> (cont.)
>>
>>              I think we need to define our objectives for the RDF
>>              representation.  Mine are as follows:
>>
>>              1. It must be possible to round-trip from XML/JSON through
>> RDF
>>              representation
>>
>>              * This includes retaining information about order of
>>         repeating elements
>>
>>              * Needs to allow for extensions where-ever they can appear,
>>              including simple types (date, boolean, etc.)
>>
>>              2. We want to be able to represent instances as RDF and
>>         Profiles as
>>              OWL/RDFS
>>
>>              3. Syntax needs to be "safe" when dealing with modifier
>>         extensions
>>
>>              4. Syntax should support vocabulary bindings to code,
>>         Coding and
>>              CodeableConcept - including dealing with extensible value
>>         sets and
>>              multi-code system value sets
>>
>>              5. Syntax should enforce constraints that are representable
>>         in RDF
>>              (i.e. schema constraints, regular expressions, etc.)
>>
>>              6. In the RDFS/OWL, should expose at least minimal annotation
>>              information for display
>>
>>              Lloyd
>>
>>
>>              ------------------------------__--------
>>              Lloyd McKenzie
>>
>>         +1-780-993-9501 <tel:%2B1-780-993-9501> <tel:%2B1-780-993-9501>
>>
>>
>>
>>              Note: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and
>>         positions
>>              expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of
>> my
>>              clients nor those of the organizations with whom I hold
>>         governance
>>              positions.
>>
>>              On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 11:11 AM, David Booth
>>         <david@dbooth.org <mailto:david@dbooth.org>
>>              <mailto:david@dbooth.org <mailto:david@dbooth.org>>> wrote:
>>
>>              I'm so sorry I forgot to send these out last Tuesday, but
>>         here are
>>              draft minutes from our call, with Eric Prud'hommeaux
>>         reviewing his
>>              FHIR ontology approach:
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-__hcls-minutes.html
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-minutes.html>
>>              and below in plain text.
>>
>>              Also, as a reminder, tomorrow's call (Tuesday) will
>>         continue with
>>              Claude Nanjo reviewing his FHIR ontology approach.
>>
>>              Thanks,
>>              David Booth
>>                  ------------------------------
>> __--------------------------
>>                  [1]W3C
>>
>>                     [1] http://www.w3.org/
>>
>>                                              - DRAFT -
>>
>>              Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group
>>         Teleconference
>>
>>              02 Dec 2014
>>
>>                  See also: [2]IRC log
>>
>>                     [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-__hcls-irc
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-irc>
>>
>>              Attendees
>>
>>                  Present
>>                         Bryn_Rhodes, Cati, Claude_Nanjo, David_Booth,
>> EricP,
>>                         Guoqian, Hans_Cools, Ingeborg, Joshua_Phillips,
>>                         Kerstin_Forsberg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Neda,
>>         Paul_Knapp,
>>                         TimW, Tony_Mallia, Charlie_Mead,
>> egonw_(IRC_only?),
>>                         Scott_Marshall, Patricia, Rob_Hausam,
>>         Vassil_(IRC_only?)
>>
>>                  Regrets
>>                  Chair
>>                         David Booth (and Paul Knapp)
>>
>>                  Scribe
>>                         dbooth
>>
>>              Contents
>>
>>                    * [3]Topics
>>                        1. [4]Approve Minutes of previous meetings
>>                        2. [5]Action Review
>>                        3. [6]FHIR Ontology Review
>>                    * [7]Summary of Action Items
>>
>>         ____________________________________________________________
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2014
>>
>>                  <ericP> trackbot, start meeting
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life
>>         Sciences
>>                  Interest Group Teleconference
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2014
>>
>>                  <ericP> oops
>>
>>                  <TimW> TimW is from +1.919.767...
>>
>>                  <RHausam> RHausam is 801.949.1556 <tel:801.949.1556>
>>         <tel:801.949.1556 <tel:801.949.1556>>
>>
>>
>>                  <Claude>
>>         [8]https://global.gotomeeting.__com/join/157514853
>>         <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853>
>>
>>                     [8] https://global.gotomeeting.__com/join/157514853
>>         <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853>
>>
>>                  <Claude> Please join our GoToMeeting
>>
>>              Approve Minutes of previous meetings
>>
>>                  Nov 18:
>>
>>         [9]http://wiki.hl7.org/index.__php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall___
>> Minutes_
>>         <http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_>
>>                  20141118
>>
>>                     [9]
>>         http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?__title=ITS_RDF_Concall_
>> Minutes___20141118
>>         <http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_
>> Minutes_20141118>
>>
>>                  Nov 25:
>>
>>         [10]http://wiki.hl7.org/index.__php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall___
>> Minutes
>>         <http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes>
>>                  _20141125
>>
>>                    [10]
>>         http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?__title=ITS_RDF_Concall_
>> Minutes___20141125
>>         <http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_
>> Minutes_20141125>
>>
>>                  Nov 18 minutes unanimously approved.
>>
>>                  Nov 25 minutes unanimously approved.
>>
>>              Action Review
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: ericP to set up tracker [recorded in
>>
>>         [11]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01> --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [11]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01>
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Set up tracker [recorded in
>>
>>         [12]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01> --
>>                  pending [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-12-09].
>>
>>                    [12]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01>
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Tony to find out more details about
>>         how iCat
>>                  handles ICD-11 ont and report back [recorded in
>>
>>         [13]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01> --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [13]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01>
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Error finding 'Tony'. You can review and
>>         register
>>                  nicknames at
>>         <[14]http://www.w3.org/2014/__HCLS/track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>>.
>>
>>                    [14] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/__track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Guoqian to figure out whether he can
>>         share URI
>>                  conventions for ICD-11 [recorded in
>>
>>         [15]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07> --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [15]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Figure out whether he can
>>         share
>>                  uri conventions for icd-11 [recorded in
>>
>>         [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07> --
>>                  pending [on Guoqian Jiang - due 2014-12-09].
>>
>>                    [16]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>
>>
>>                  <Claude> For those who just joined IRC, we also have a
>>                  GoToMeeting at:
>>
>>                  <Claude>
>>         [17]https://global.__gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>>         <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853>
>>
>>                    [17] https://global.gotomeeting.__com/join/157514853
>>         <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853>
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Kerstin and Ingeborg to prepare a
>>         status and
>>                  future state ideas for PhUSE-FDA work [recorded in
>>
>>         [18]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action05
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05> --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [18]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action05
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05>
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Error finding 'Kerstin'. You can review and
>>         register
>>                  nicknames at
>>         <[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/__HCLS/track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>>.
>>
>>                    [19] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/__track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Eric to establish/make a wiki page for
>>         C-CDA
>>                  RDF representations work [recorded in
>>
>>         [20]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action06
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06> --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [20]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action06
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06>
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Establish/make a wiki
>>         page for
>>                  c-cda rdf representations work [recorded in
>>
>>         [21]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action06
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06> --
>>                  pending [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-12-09].
>>
>>                    [21]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action06
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06>
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Eric and Joshua to report on C-CDA RDF
>>                  representations work plan [recorded in
>>
>>         [22]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07> --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [22]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07>
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - And joshua to report on
>>         c-cda rdf
>>                  representations work plan [recorded in
>>
>>         [23]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07> --
>>                  pending [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-12-09].
>>
>>                    [23]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07>
>>
>>                  Joshua: Sent email describing a use case. Will add to
>> wiki
>>                  page.
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Tony and Rob to report their plan on
>>                  High-level concept mapping to RDF work [recorded in
>>
>>         [24]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action08
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08> --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [24]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action08
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08>
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Error finding 'Tony'. You can review and
>>         register
>>                  nicknames at
>>         <[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/__HCLS/track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>>.
>>
>>                    [25] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/__track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Tony and all to decide on a wiki for
>>         Term Info
>>                  work [recorded in
>>
>>         [26]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action09
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09>] --
>>                  PENDING
>>
>>                    [26]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action09
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09>]
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Error finding 'Tony'. You can review and
>>         register
>>                  nicknames at
>>         <[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/__HCLS/track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>>.
>>
>>                    [27] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/__track/users
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>
>>
>>                  <scribe> ACTION: Guoqian to figure out whether he can
>>         share URI
>>                  conventions for ICD-11 [recorded in
>>
>>         [28]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>]
>>
>>                    [28]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>]
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Figure out whether he can
>>         share
>>                  uri conventions for icd-11 [recorded in
>>
>>         [29]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>]
>>                  [on Guoqian Jiang - due 2014-12-09].
>>
>>                    [29]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>]
>>
>>                  <scribe> [PENDING]
>>
>>              FHIR Ontology Review
>>
>>                  <Claude> Please use GoToMeeting only for video
>>
>>                  [30]https://global.__gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>>         <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853>
>>
>>                    [30] https://global.gotomeeting.__com/join/157514853
>>         <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853>
>>
>>                  Access Code: 157-514-853
>>
>>                  Eric's slides: ->
>>                  [31]http://www.w3.org/2014/__Talks/1125-fhir-rdf-egp/
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/1125-fhir-rdf-egp/> FHIR-RDF
>>
>>                    [31]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/__1125-fhir-rdf-egp/
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/1125-fhir-rdf-egp/>
>>
>>                  Eric: Our goal was to let anything in FHIR XML be
>>         translated
>>                  into RDF.
>>                  ... We wrote something that read the XML definition
>>         files and
>>                  produced something that maps the XML to RDF.
>>                  ... Python code reads the json definition files and
>>         spits out
>>                  XML, being the parts that we need of the FHIR spec.
>>                  ... "subs" is what is allowed inside a FHIR resource.
>>                  ... effectively the attributes of a resource.
>>                  ... Then we embedded that in an XSLT script, and hand
>>         edited
>>                  the foot of it.
>>                  ... The stuff we wrote into the footer of the XSLT says
>>         that
>>                  for a particular construct in the XML instance data,
>>         there's
>>                  special handling, such as URLs for identifiers.
>>
>>                  David: How does the fact that it is an atom feed affect
>> the
>>                  interpretatinon of the XML?
>>
>>                  Eric: It leaves some other graph stuff superimposed on
>> it.
>>
>>                  Marc: Re datatypes, you used FHIR value, but the value
>>         itself
>>                  looks like it is a string.
>>                  ... If it is a string, then reasoners cannot do much
>>         with it.
>>
>>                  Eric: Datatype values are showing up as literals.
>>
>>                  Marc: Another is that a date is just a string, not an
>>         xsd:date.
>>                  ... On slide 2
>>
>>                  Eric: Ideally it should have the datatype stuck on the
>>         end of
>>                  it. There's a tension between having the datatype on the
>>                  fhir:value and having it on a blank node.
>>                  ... The natural RDF-ish way to do it would be using
>>                  xsd:datetime.
>>                  ... Need to decide which of these ways will be most
>>         palatable
>>                  to RDF folks versus native FHIR folks.
>>                  ... Sometimes these things are not just datetimes in
>>         FHIR. Need
>>                  to make it as simple as possible and no simpler.
>>
>>                  Guoqian: Is a different URI being used for the
>>         namespaces? Will
>>                  it cause problems when you use SPARQL across different
>>         models?
>>
>>                  Eric: I tested some of this. I stuck a bunch of these
>>                  namespaces together, and I believe we've addressed your
>>                  concern.
>>
>>                  David: Is the datatype issue due to the fact that
>>         datatypes are
>>                  extensible in FHIR?
>>
>>                  Eric: Maybe. RDF needs to be monotonic.
>>
>>                  Paul: Modifying extensions can appear only in the roots
>> of
>>                  classes (considering the complex type as a class)
>>
>>                  Eric: The XSLT footer has the custom code for extensions.
>>
>>                  Paul: We did that to limit what you need to examine, to
>>         find
>>                  out if there is a modifying extension.
>>
>>                  Claude: I think you can have modifying extensions on
>>         the root
>>                  type and anything that is defined from the root type.
>>
>>                  ISSUE: FHIR Modifying extensions and monotonicity
>>
>>                  <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - Fhir modifying extensions
>> and
>>                  monotonicity. Please complete additional details at
>>                  <[32]http://www.w3.org/2014/__HCLS/track/issues/1/edit
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/issues/1/edit>>.
>>
>>                    [32]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/__track/issues/1/edit
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/issues/1/edit>
>>
>>                  Eric: Example here may not be up to date. Anyone know?
>>
>>                  Paul: the dev site has DSTU 2.
>>
>>                  Eric: Another script generates the ShEx definitions
>>         from the
>>                  FHIR spec.
>>                  ... and the ShEx is used to generate FHIR XML back
>>         again from
>>                  FHIR RDF.
>>                  ... Slide 7 is showing how to take C-CDA in RDF and
>>         producing
>>                  FHIR RDF.
>>
>>                  Guoqian: The result prefix is fhir but should be patient.
>>
>>                  Eric: Yes, you're right. That can be fixed in the ShEx.
>>
>>                  Tony: Sort of verbatim translation. The difference is
>> maybe
>>                  target audience style -- a style that is good for the
>>         general
>>                  tools used in RDF. Only difference is the end style of
>> RDF.
>>                  ... Establishing closure between FHIR ontology and
>>         SNOMED-CT
>>                  would need to happen. Main difference is in the final RDF
>>                  style.
>>
>>                  <pknapp> Zakim: Have to leave for another meeting, thx,
>>         great
>>                  work.
>>
>>                  Eric: Will need to need to be a balance.
>>                  ... Once we have transliterated, what we map to our dream
>>                  ontology. May want to balance how much is wedged into
>>         the XSLT
>>                  and how much into the interpretive dance later.
>>
>>                  Claude: Might want a low level FHIR ont and a higher
>>         level FHIR
>>                  ont both.
>>
>>                  David: I kind of like the auto-generated aspect of this
>>                  approach.
>>
>>                  <vassil> чуит
>>
>>                  ADJOURNED
>>
>>                  <vassil> quit
>>
>>                  <ericP> [33]coding mapping example
>>
>>                    [33]
>>         https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/__ClinicalObservationsInteropera
>> __bility/__FDATherapeuticAreaOntologies#__codeAndSystemToIRI
>>         <https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteropera
>> bility/FDATherapeuticAreaOntologies#codeAndSystemToIRI>
>>
>>                  <ericP> (for next week)
>>
>>                  <vassil> exit
>>
>>              Summary of Action Items
>>
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: Eric and Joshua to report on C-CDA RDF
>>                  representations work plan [recorded in
>>
>>         [34]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07>]
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: Eric to establish/make a wiki page
>>         for C-CDA
>>                  RDF representations work [recorded in
>>
>>         [35]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action06
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06>]
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: ericP to set up tracker [recorded in
>>
>>         [36]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01>]
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: Guoqian to figure out whether he can
>>         share
>>                  URI conventions for ICD-11 [recorded in
>>
>>         [37]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>]
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: Kerstin and Ingeborg to prepare a
>>         status and
>>                  future state ideas for PhUSE-FDA work [recorded in
>>
>>         [38]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action05
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05>]
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: Tony and all to decide on a wiki for
>> Term
>>                  Info work [recorded in
>>
>>         [39]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action09
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09>]
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: Tony and Rob to report their plan on
>>                  High-level concept mapping to RDF work [recorded in
>>
>>         [40]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action08
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08>]
>>                  [PENDING] ACTION: Tony to find out more details about
>>         how iCat
>>                  handles ICD-11 ont and report back [recorded in
>>
>>         [41]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/__18-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01>]
>>
>>                    [34]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07>
>>                    [35]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action06
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06>
>>                    [36]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01>
>>                    [37]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-__hcls-minutes.html#action07
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07>
>>                    [38]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action05
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05>
>>                    [39]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action09
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09>
>>                    [40]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action08
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08>
>>                    [41]
>>         http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-__hcls-minutes.html#action01
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01>
>>
>>                  [End of minutes]
>>
>>         ____________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>                   Minutes formatted by David Booth's [42]scribe.perl
>> version
>>                   1.140 ([43]CVS log)
>>                   $Date: 2014-12-02 17:30:25 $
>>
>>         ____________________________________________________________
>>
>>                    [42]
>>         http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~__checkout~/2002/scribe/__scribedoc.htm
>> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
>>                    [43] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/__scribe/
>>         <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>
>>
>>              Scribe.perl diagnostic output
>>
>>                  [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
>>              This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06
>>         18:16:30
>>              Check for newer version at
>>         [44]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~__checkout~/2002/
>>         <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/>
>>              scribe/
>>
>>                    [44]
>>         http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~__checkout~/2002/scribe/
>>         <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/>
>>
>>              Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
>>
>>              No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: dbooth
>>              Inferring Scribes: dbooth
>>              Default Present: DBooth, +1.919.767.aaaa, ericP, rhausam,
>>         TimW, Joshua_P
>>              hillips, +1.202.528.aabb, charlie, +1.469.226.aacc, Tony,
>>         Neda, patricia
>>              , Mark_Twagirumukiza, Kerstin_Forsberg, Cati, Kerstin,
>>         +1.801.368.aadd,
>>              +1.604.250.aaee, Bryn_Rhodes, +31.62.427.aaff, mscottm,
>>         Guoqian, +1.608.
>>              310.aagg, vassil, +41.78.847.aahh, [IPcaller]
>>
>>              WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list:
>>         Bryn_Rhodes, Cati,
>>              Claude_Nanjo, David_Booth, EricP, Guoqian, Hans_Cools,
>>         Ingeborg, Joshua_
>>              Phillips, Kerstin_Forsberg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Neda,
>>         Paul_Knapp, TimW,
>>              Tony_Mallia, Charlie_Mead, egonw, (IRC, only?),
>>         Scott_Marshall, Patricia
>>              , Rob_Hausam, Vassil, (IRC, only?))
>>              Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without
>>         replacing the lis
>>              t,
>>              such as: <dbooth> Present+ Bryn_Rhodes, Cati, Claude_Nanjo,
>>         David_Booth,
>>                EricP, Guoqian, Hans_Cools, Ingeborg, Joshua_Phillips,
>>              Kerstin_Forsberg
>>              , Marc_Twagirumukiza, Neda, Paul_Knapp, TimW, Tony_Mallia,
>>         Charlie_Mead,
>>                egonw_(IRC_only?), Scott_Marshall, Patricia, Rob_Hausam,
>>              Vassil_(IRC_on
>>              ly?)
>>
>>              Present: Bryn_Rhodes Cati Claude_Nanjo David_Booth EricP
>>         Guoqian Hans_Co
>>              ols Ingeborg Joshua_Phillips Kerstin_Forsberg
>>         Marc_Twagirumukiza Neda Pa
>>              ul_Knapp TimW Tony_Mallia Charlie_Mead egonw_(IRC_only?)
>>         Scott_Marshall
>>              Patricia Rob_Hausam Vassil_(IRC_only?)
>>              Found Date: 02 Dec 2014
>>              Guessing minutes URL:
>>         [45]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/__02-hcls-minutes.html
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-minutes.html>
>>              People with action items: all eric ericp guoqian ingeborg
>>         joshua kerstin
>>                rob tony
>>
>>                    [45] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-__hcls-minutes.html
>>         <http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-minutes.html>
>>
>>
>>                  [End of [46]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
>>
>>                    [46]
>>         http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~__checkout~/2002/scribe/__scribedoc.htm
>> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
>>
>>
>>
>>         ******************************__****************************
>> **__***********************
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>

Received on Tuesday, 16 December 2014 20:03:10 UTC