- From: Luciano, Joanne S. <luciaj2@rpi.edu>
- Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 21:00:01 +0000
- To: Stuart Turner <turner.stuart@gmail.com>
- CC: "Luciano, Joanne S." <luciaj2@rpi.edu>, "Solbrig, Harold R." <Solbrig.Harold@mayo.edu>, "R. Cornet" <r.cornet@amc.uva.nl>, Michel Dumontier <michel.dumontier@gmail.com>, "Freimuth, Robert, Ph.D." <Freimuth.Robert@mayo.edu>, Jim McCusker <james.mccusker@yale.edu>, Aaron Brown <abbrown@google.com>, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>, Renato Iannella <ri@semanticidentity.com>, "Lin MD, Simon" <LINMD.SIMON@mcrf.mfldclin.edu>, Matthias Samwald <matthias.samwald@meduniwien.ac.at>, "<public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>" <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>
Thanks Stuart. On May 23, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Stuart Turner wrote: > A patient (human or non-human) continues to be a patient after their death. Medical procedures continue (e.g. autopsy/necropsy). Medical records are revised and persisted naturally, and by law. A death certificate is issued. And so on. HL7 modeling isn't ideal for guidance here, especially when referring to patients of the non-human variety :) > > ~ Stuart > ----------------------------- > Stuart Turner, DVM, MS > Biomedical Informaticist | Principal, Leafpath Informatics, LLC > stuart@leafpath.org | +1.916.596.0255 | @ Skype <turner.stuart> > http://leafpath.org | FOAF: http://stuartturner.org/foaf.rdf > > > On May 23, 2012, at 1:45 PM, Luciano, Joanne S. wrote: > >> Do they? The body does. The memory doesn't, in digital space: >> >> What happens to their data? >> Does their data disappear? Their medical record? >> They "were" a patient. Not sure what that means - maybe we need, in addition to is_a a new class was_a (for the has beens). >> >> some things to muse about. >> >> joanne >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Joanne S. Luciano, PhD Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute >> Research Associate Professor 110 8th Street, Winslow 2143 >> Tetherless World Constellation Troy, NY 12180, USA >> Department of Computer Science Email: jluciano@rpi.edu >> Office Tel. +1.518.276.4939 Global Tel. +1.617.440.4364 (skypeIn) >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> On May 23, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Solbrig, Harold R. wrote: >> >>> Although, if the patient dies, the person goes away as well, no? ;-) >>> >>> From: public-semweb-lifesci-request@listhub.w3.org [mailto:public-semweb-lifesci-request@listhub.w3.org] On Behalf Of R. Cornet >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:26 PM >>> To: Michel Dumontier; Freimuth, Robert, Ph.D. >>> Cc: Jim McCusker; Aaron Brown; Dan Brickley; Renato Iannella; Lin MD, Simon; Matthias Samwald; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org >>> Subject: RE: RDF Schema / LODD mapping -- Re: New proposal: health & medical extensions to schema.org >>> >>> I would say that if you follow ontoclean, being a patient is a non-rigid property of a person. >>> >>> Ronald >>> >>> ################################################################ >>> Ronald Cornet, PhD email: R.Cornet@amc.uva.nl >>> dept. of Medical Informatics phone: +31 (0)20 566 5188 >>> Academic Medical Center, Room J1B-115 fax: +31 (0)20 691 9840 >>> P.O.Box 22700 www: kik.amc.uva.nl/home/rcornet/ >>> 1100 DE Amsterdam >>> The Netherlands >>> >>> From: Michel Dumontier [mailto:michel.dumontier@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 5:02 PM >>> To: Freimuth, Robert, Ph.D. >>> Cc: Jim McCusker; Aaron Brown; Dan Brickley; Renato Iannella; Lin MD, Simon; Matthias Samwald; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org >>> Subject: Re: RDF Schema / LODD mapping -- Re: New proposal: health & medical extensions to schema.org >>> >>> If you follow ontoclean [1], then all you need to know is that if not all people are patients, then patients is a subtype of people. >>> >>> m. >>> >>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OntoClean >>> >>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Freimuth, Robert, Ph.D. <Freimuth.Robert@mayo.edu> wrote: >>>> For instance, Physicians are not the same thing as Patients, but a Patient can also be a Physician. >>> >>> ...and a physician can be a patient, both of which are roles that entities can play. IMO, this illustrates the importance of defining roles and entities separately (rather than through inheritance from a common parent). >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> From: public-semweb-lifesci-request@listhub.w3.org on behalf of Jim McCusker >>> Sent: Wed 5/23/2012 9:40 AM >>> To: Aaron Brown >>> Cc: Dan Brickley; Renato Iannella; Lin MD, Simon; Matthias Samwald; public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org >>> >>> Subject: Re: RDF Schema / LODD mapping -- Re: New proposal: health & medical extensions to schema.org >>> >>> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Aaron Brown <abbrown@google.com> wrote: >>> Ok. But I still don't see why this needs to be specified explicitly. Otherwise, wouldn't it also be necessary to specify that a MedicalEntity is disjoint from a Movie, a SocialEvent, a DryCleaningOrLaundry, etc? It seems to get out of hand pretty quickly. For that matter, if someone wanted to extend the proposed schema by defining a Physician type that inherits from both Person and MedicalEntity, I think would be OK. >>> >>> RDF and other semantic web standards allow for instances to have multiple unrelated types. This is part of the Open World Assumption, and is a good thing, since it allows us to discover classifications for things later on. In order to create the same sort of single inheritance that one sees in, for instance, Java, simply make each sibling under a given class disjoint with all its other siblings. I would be reluctant to do that blindly, though, as it can often result in modeling errors. For instance, Physicians are not the same thing as Patients, but a Patient can also be a Physician. >>> >>> Jim >>> -- >>> Jim McCusker >>> Programmer Analyst >>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics >>> Yale School of Medicine >>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330 >>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu >>> >>> PhD Student >>> Tetherless World Constellation >>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute >>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu >>> http://tw.rpi.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Michel Dumontier >>> Associate Professor of Bioinformatics, Carleton University >>> Chair, W3C Semantic Web for Health Care and the Life Sciences Interest Group >>> http://dumontierlab.com >>> >>> De informatie opgenomen in dit bericht kan vertrouwelijk zijn en is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien u dit bericht onterecht ontvangt, wordt u verzocht de inhoud niet te gebruiken en de afzender direct te informeren door het bericht te retourneren. 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Received on Wednesday, 23 May 2012 21:00:52 UTC