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[Minutes SSN] Call 2017-02-21

From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 23:36:25 +0100
To: <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00a301d28c92$efb77fe0$cf267fa0$@w3.org>
The draft minutes of today's SSN call are available at:

https://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html

... and copied as raw text below.

Summary of Resolutions
1. Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their +1) on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property
2. Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is linked to an Actuation
3. Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty
4. sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

Thanks,
Francois.

-----
Spatial Data on the Web SSN Sub Group Teleconference
21 Feb 2017

Attendees

   Present
          kerry, Francois, mlefranc, ahaller2, DanhLePhuoc, roba,
          RaulGarciaCastro, KJanowic, SimonCox

   Regrets
          scottsimmons

   Chair
          Armin

   Scribe
          Maxime

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]approve last week’s minutes
            https://www.w3.org/2017/02/14-sdwssn-minutes
         2. [5]patent call
            https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
         3. [6]Vote on PROPOSAL: Observable Property in sosa,
            Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with
            ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5
            several people have already indicated their +1) on
            wiki:
            https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Obse
            rvable_Property
         4. [7]Resolving of several of the questions in the
            Actuation proposal for SOSA/SSN as of discussion on
            wiki:
            https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     * [9]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> Scribe: mlefranc

   <ahaller2> scribe: mlefranc

approve last week’s minutes
[10]https://www.w3.org/2017/02/14-sdwssn-minutes

     [10] https://www.w3.org/2017/02/14-sdwssn-minutes

   <ahaller2> +1

   <KJanowic> +1

   +1

   <RaulGarciaCastro> +1

   <DanhLePhuoc> +1

   <roba> +1

patent call [11]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

     [11] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

   <KJanowic> Armin, do we have a scribe?

   <scribe> scribe: mlefranc

Vote on PROPOSAL: Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old
SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a
derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their
+1) on wiki:
[12]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Prop
erty

     [12] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property

   ahaller2: there is a wiki, long discussion in the list
   ... some discussion on option 5
   ... as a consequence, new option 6 now,

   mlefranc: Options 5 and 6 are not equivalent. In the new one,
   ssn:Property is a super class of sosa:ObservableProperty

   ahaller2: in one option, the old ssn is an equivalent class to
   sosa:ObservableProperty whereas in option 6, it'"s equivalent
   to ssn:Property

   roba: question about alignment between the old ssn and the new
   ssn

   ahaller2: yes, that's the purpose of ssnx, to align the old ssn
   with the new

   kerry: isn't there some changes here, skos:definition instead
   of rdfs:comment

   mlefranc: I would suggest to use something more precise like
   SKOS properties

   <KJanowic> yes, this is a different issue

   mlefranc: explains why I propose to use skos:definition,
   skos:example, skos:note whenever appropriate

   ahaller2: that is not about the vote, that's another issue

   <joshlieberman> My understanding is that the annotation
   possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

   SimonCox: we aready discussed that one month ago: we proposed
   to use skos concepts without importing the skos ontology itself

   <KJanowic> lets not rediscuss the use of skos:example, please!

   <joshlieberman> Nor do they have reasoning or consistency
   implications.

   ahaller2: we did not make any decision on the use of
   skos:definition, this will discussed later

   kerry: there lacks some rdfs:comment here
   ... there is new triples in ssnx that were not in the old ssn,
   like rdfs:isDefinedBy, ... overall I'm ok with this, but all
   these little changes here I'm not necessarily ok with all of
   them

   <joshlieberman> ^annotation possibilities^annotation properties

   ahaller2: let's vote one these options first, discuss the
   implementation later

   <KJanowic> we are voting on the idea/layout/conceptual
   framework, not on the particular resulting (implementation)
   code.

   <ahaller2> PROPOSED: Observable Property in sosa, Property in
   ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option
   6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already
   indicated their +1) on wiki:
   [13]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
   e_Property

     [13] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property

   KJanowic: let's be clear: we are just voting on the idea here,
   not the exact terms

   +1

   <ahaller2> +1

   <KJanowic> 0

   <joshlieberman> Question: does Option 6 include
   sosa:ObservableProperty subclassOf ssn:property?

   <kerry> +1

   <SimonCox> +1

   <DanhLePhuoc> +1

   <ahaller2> yes

   yes

   <roba> +1

   this triple is in ssn.ttl, not sosa.ttl

   <RaulGarciaCastro> +1

   <joshlieberman> +1

   <SimonCox> See ssn.ttl snippet in
   [14]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
   e_Property#Option_6:_Observable_Property_in_sosa.2C_Property_in
   _ssn.2C_old_SSN_Property_equivalent_with_ssn:Property

     [14] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property#Option_6:_Observable_Property_in_sosa.2C_Property_in_ssn.2C_old_SSN_Property_equivalent_with_ssn:Property

   ahaller2: confirms, it's in ssn.ttl, not in sosa

   RESOLUTION: Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old
   SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a
   derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated
   their +1) on wiki:
   [15]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
   e_Property

     [15] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property

   <KJanowic> "sosa:ObservableProperty rdfs:subClassOf
   ssn:Property ." is in option 6

   <ahaller2> ACTION: mlefranc to include the changes for
   ObservableProperty in SSN, SSNX and SOSA [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-268 - Include the changes for
   observableproperty in ssn, ssnx and sosa [on Maxime Lefrançois
   - due 2017-02-28].

   <KJanowic> Can I jump in here for a moment?

   <scribe> ACTION: Maxime to implement option 6 in ssn and sosa
   [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Implement option 6 in ssn and
   sosa [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-02-28].

Resolving of several of the questions in the Actuation proposal for
SOSA/SSN as of discussion on wiki:
[18]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA

     [18] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA

   <KJanowic> [see above, can I say something wrt to
   observableProperty]

   subtopic: question 2
   [19]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuat
   ion&section=3

     [19] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuation&section=3

   <ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty

   KJanowic: I wanted to mention in the previous topic
   ... I wanted to be sure that there will be no change to sosa

   ahaller2: if it's already like this, there will be no change

   <KJanowic>
   [20]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuat
   ion

     [20] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuation

   KJanowic: I changed some options,

   # (sorry, I didn't get all of you said jano)

   <KJanowic> Example updates, code updates, figure updated to
   change the property and class name

   kerry: actuatable is better than actuable, is more used
   ... it's still not an english word

   <KJanowic> @mlefranc: SOSA:actuatedProperty changed to
   SOSA:actsOnProperty and SOSA:ActuableProperty changed to
   SOSA:ActuatableProperty

   kerry: we have other words that occur in other ontologies, that
   may be better. They are listed in the wiki

   <KJanowic> language is in flux kerry

   ahaller2: it's not in all dictionaries, but in some of them
   ... let's propose it first, and see how the group reacts

   KJanowic: it's usual to create new technical words such as
   "triplification", I believe actuable is a good property name

   kerry: I'd like to suggest actionable property, similar to what
   the Web of Things group is using

   <ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the
   class that is linked to an Actuation

   <KJanowic> +1

   <ahaller2> +1

   <kerry> -1

   <roba> +0

   0

   <DanhLePhuoc> 0

   <SimonCox> 0

   <ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActionableProperty for the
   class that is linked to an Actuation

   <Raul> 0

   <KJanowic> -1

   <kerry> +1

   <Raul> +1

   <ahaller2> 0

   <DanhLePhuoc> 0

   <KJanowic> (I agree with the point just made)

   <ahaller2> josh: -1

   so +1 on actuatable and -1 on actionable

   <roba> -1

   <KJanowic> Simon has not voted, right?

   <ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty 2 +1, 5 0, 1 -1

   <roba> can we have a ref link for the def of actionable...

   <SimonCox> Need to keep clear the distinction between its
   potential, and its actual role in an activity or event.

   <joshlieberman> Actuatable +1

   <SimonCox> Didn't follow Josh's argument

   <ahaller2> sosa:ActionableProperty 2 +1, 3 0, 4 -1

   ahaller2: for Actuatable that's +3, 4*0 and -1

   <joshlieberman> Actionable implies that it promotes action, not
   that it is the object of action.

   ahaller2: for actionable, that's +2, 3*0, -3

   <RaulGarciaCastro>
   [21]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actionable

     [21] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actionable

   SimonCox: if we move back to observe and observable, observable
   is the potential of being observed, and observe is the
   existence of some situation where this actually occurs

   <KJanowic> <ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty 2 +1, 5 0, 1 -1
   ---> should be 3x +1

   joshlieberman: actionable means that something external can act
   on the property to change its value
   ... whereas actuatable property means that the value can
   change. Change comes from within, not from the external world

   ahaller2: Raul posted a wiki page where he compares how things
   are being modeled in WoT WG

   DanhLePhuoc: the WoT WG is just starting, so they do not use
   fixed terms for the moment, we should not 100% rely on their
   choices for our own worlk

   <ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the
   class that is linked to an Actuation

   <KJanowic> +1

   <SimonCox> +1

   <ahaller2> +1

   <kerry> 0

   <joshlieberman_> +1

   <roba> +1

   <DanhLePhuoc> +1

   +1

   <RaulGarciaCastro> 0 (can live with it)

   RESOLUTION: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that
   is linked to an Actuation

   <ahaller2> see
   [22]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA

     [22] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA

   KJanowic: we voted on the class Actuatable Property, but we now
   need to vote the property that links between an actuation and
   actuatableproperty

   <ahaller2> proposal for sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy

   <KJanowic> yes

   subtopic: question 3 in
   [23]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Ques
   tion_3:_naming_of_the_link_between_Actuation_and_xxxProperty

     [23] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Question_3:_naming_of_the_link_between_Actuation_and_xxxProperty

   <KJanowic> and then there is one important issue left to
   discuss where I really need your help

   <ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of
   sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for connecting Actuation
   to ActuatableProperty

   <KJanowic> +1

   <ahaller2> +1

   +1

   <SimonCox> +1

   <kerry> +1

   <DanhLePhuoc> +1

   <joshlieberman_> +1

   <roba> +1

   RESOLUTION: Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for
   connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty

   KJanowic: I'd like now to talk about the link from the class
   actuator to the property that it acts on

   <KJanowic> yes

   <RaulGarciaCastro> +1

   <KJanowic> I would absolutely try to avoid that (having the
   same name for two totally different issues)

   mlefranc: I do not see a problem with reusing the same name.
   actOnProperty from actuator to ActuatableProperty, and
   actedOnProperty from actuation to ActuatableProperty, perhaps?
   ... Using present and past could be a solution there.

   <KJanowic> Okay, lets move on to Q4

   <scribe> ACTION: mlefranc to add this specific question in the
   wiki (question 10) [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Add this specific question in
   the wiki (question 10) [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-02-28].

   <KJanowic> I will add another question for this

   kerry: ssn has modeled potential observation, whereas maxime
   now proposes past tense
   ... are we thinking now not about potential, but also record ?

   <KJanowic> LELts follow the chair and move on to Q4

   mlefran: this is exactly my proposal

   subtopic: question 4:
   [25]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Ques
   tion_4:_naming_of_invoked.2FinvokedBy_vs_madeObservation.2F.3F.
   3F

     [25] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Question_4:_naming_of_invoked.2FinvokedBy_vs_madeObservation.2F.3F.3F

   <roba> must handle bith potential and result in a consistent
   way - so scope needs to be both IMHO

   KJanowic: vote 4 is simply to vote on what we have already in
   sosa
   ... use term trigger, or invoke

   ahaller2: I just added these properties, in Lisbon, now there
   are more options, let's vote

   I like option 4

   <joshlieberman_> option 4 for me

   <KJanowic> I would be in favor of invikedBy but I would be okay
   with madeActuation

   <kerry> I prefer option 1

   <KJanowic> sensor?

   option 3 is sosa:madeActuation/sosa:madeByActuator and
   sosa:madeObservation/sosa:madeBySensor

   I like option 4

   <KJanowic> I would like to strongly object to this bundling

   <SimonCox> and comparable for sampling:
   madeSample/madeBySamplingDevice ?

   +1 for Simon

   roba: what about option 6, it's not exclusive with the other
   options

   <KJanowic> we didn't want to have subproperties in sosa

   <SimonCox> or madeSamplingActivity/madeBySamplingDevice

   ahaller2: yes, that's a super property we could additionally
   use also

   <KJanowic> we are talking about actuation now,not observation

   <ahaller2> sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy

   ahaller2: we are only talking about actuation now

   <SimonCox> (but we are making a sideways look at observation
   and sampling just to see if the patterns hold up)

   <ahaller2> PROPOSED: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy
   for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

   <KJanowic> @simonCox: yes, totally fine with that

   +1

   <KJanowic> +1

   <SimonCox> +1

   <kerry> 0

   <ahaller2> +1

   <joshlieberman_> +1

   <RaulGarciaCastro> -0.5 (I prefer actuatedBy)

   <DanhLePhuoc> +1

   <roba> +0

   <KJanowic> @RaulGarciaCastro: also fine with me, maybe yours is
   even better

   <kerry> +1 to Raul's comment -- can we reconsider?

   me too

   ok to reconsider

   <ahaller2> PROPOSED: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuatedBy for the
   property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

   <Raul> +1

   <kerry> 0

   <ahaller2> 0

   <KJanowic> 0

   0

   <joshlieberman_> -1 sounds like what actuation does to
   actuatableProperty

   <roba> 0

   <KJanowic> @ahaller: can you make an action for me to implement
   the actuation changes before the meeting ends?

   <kerry> sugest: actuated/actuatedBy

   actually yes, the domain of this property could be anything....

   <KJanowic> no, we had a vote

   <SimonCox> wordsmithing in a group is painful

   <KJanowic> @simonCox: yes, and we had a vote

   RESOLUTION: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the
   property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

   KJanowic: please create an action for me to implement this in
   sosa.ttl

   <SimonCox> When can we get to
   [26]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Alignment_to_O%26M and
   [27]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Sampling ? Both things
   I was tasked with and followed up on now in limbo. The former
   should be easy at least?

     [26] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Alignment_to_O&M
     [27] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Sampling

   <ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to implement changes based on the
   RESOLVED proposals in SOSA [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-271 - Implement changes based on the
   resolved proposals in sosa [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due
   2017-02-28].

   <KJanowic> can we simply do 10min longer today?

   <kerry> bye!

   <ahaller2> bye

   <Raul> BYe

   <KJanowic> thanks, bye bye

   <roba> bye

   # what is the command to generate the minutes ?

   <ahaller2> i will do it

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: KJanowic to implement changes based on the
   RESOLVED proposals in SOSA [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Maxime to implement option 6 in ssn and sosa
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: mlefranc to add this specific question in the
   wiki (question 10) [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: mlefranc to include the changes for
   ObservableProperty in SSN, SSNX and SOSA [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [33]Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN
       Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a
       derivation of Option 5 several people have already
       indicated their +1) on wiki:
       https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
       e_Property
    2. [34]Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is
       linked to an Actuation
    3. [35]Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for
       connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty
    4. [36]sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the
       property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

   [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:36:41 UTC

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