- From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 23:36:25 +0100
- To: <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
The draft minutes of today's SSN call are available at:
https://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html
... and copied as raw text below.
Summary of Resolutions
1. Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their +1) on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property
2. Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is linked to an Actuation
3. Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty
4. sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class
Thanks,
Francois.
-----
Spatial Data on the Web SSN Sub Group Teleconference
21 Feb 2017
Attendees
Present
kerry, Francois, mlefranc, ahaller2, DanhLePhuoc, roba,
RaulGarciaCastro, KJanowic, SimonCox
Regrets
scottsimmons
Chair
Armin
Scribe
Maxime
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]approve last week’s minutes
https://www.w3.org/2017/02/14-sdwssn-minutes
2. [5]patent call
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
3. [6]Vote on PROPOSAL: Observable Property in sosa,
Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with
ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5
several people have already indicated their +1) on
wiki:
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Obse
rvable_Property
4. [7]Resolving of several of the questions in the
Actuation proposal for SOSA/SSN as of discussion on
wiki:
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA
* [8]Summary of Action Items
* [9]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> Scribe: mlefranc
<ahaller2> scribe: mlefranc
approve last week’s minutes
[10]https://www.w3.org/2017/02/14-sdwssn-minutes
[10] https://www.w3.org/2017/02/14-sdwssn-minutes
<ahaller2> +1
<KJanowic> +1
+1
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<roba> +1
patent call [11]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
[11] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
<KJanowic> Armin, do we have a scribe?
<scribe> scribe: mlefranc
Vote on PROPOSAL: Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old
SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a
derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their
+1) on wiki:
[12]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Prop
erty
[12] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property
ahaller2: there is a wiki, long discussion in the list
... some discussion on option 5
... as a consequence, new option 6 now,
mlefranc: Options 5 and 6 are not equivalent. In the new one,
ssn:Property is a super class of sosa:ObservableProperty
ahaller2: in one option, the old ssn is an equivalent class to
sosa:ObservableProperty whereas in option 6, it'"s equivalent
to ssn:Property
roba: question about alignment between the old ssn and the new
ssn
ahaller2: yes, that's the purpose of ssnx, to align the old ssn
with the new
kerry: isn't there some changes here, skos:definition instead
of rdfs:comment
mlefranc: I would suggest to use something more precise like
SKOS properties
<KJanowic> yes, this is a different issue
mlefranc: explains why I propose to use skos:definition,
skos:example, skos:note whenever appropriate
ahaller2: that is not about the vote, that's another issue
<joshlieberman> My understanding is that the annotation
possibilities are not mutually exclusive.
SimonCox: we aready discussed that one month ago: we proposed
to use skos concepts without importing the skos ontology itself
<KJanowic> lets not rediscuss the use of skos:example, please!
<joshlieberman> Nor do they have reasoning or consistency
implications.
ahaller2: we did not make any decision on the use of
skos:definition, this will discussed later
kerry: there lacks some rdfs:comment here
... there is new triples in ssnx that were not in the old ssn,
like rdfs:isDefinedBy, ... overall I'm ok with this, but all
these little changes here I'm not necessarily ok with all of
them
<joshlieberman> ^annotation possibilities^annotation properties
ahaller2: let's vote one these options first, discuss the
implementation later
<KJanowic> we are voting on the idea/layout/conceptual
framework, not on the particular resulting (implementation)
code.
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Observable Property in sosa, Property in
ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option
6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already
indicated their +1) on wiki:
[13]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
e_Property
[13] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property
KJanowic: let's be clear: we are just voting on the idea here,
not the exact terms
+1
<ahaller2> +1
<KJanowic> 0
<joshlieberman> Question: does Option 6 include
sosa:ObservableProperty subclassOf ssn:property?
<kerry> +1
<SimonCox> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<ahaller2> yes
yes
<roba> +1
this triple is in ssn.ttl, not sosa.ttl
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
<joshlieberman> +1
<SimonCox> See ssn.ttl snippet in
[14]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
e_Property#Option_6:_Observable_Property_in_sosa.2C_Property_in
_ssn.2C_old_SSN_Property_equivalent_with_ssn:Property
[14] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property#Option_6:_Observable_Property_in_sosa.2C_Property_in_ssn.2C_old_SSN_Property_equivalent_with_ssn:Property
ahaller2: confirms, it's in ssn.ttl, not in sosa
RESOLUTION: Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old
SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a
derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated
their +1) on wiki:
[15]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
e_Property
[15] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property
<KJanowic> "sosa:ObservableProperty rdfs:subClassOf
ssn:Property ." is in option 6
<ahaller2> ACTION: mlefranc to include the changes for
ObservableProperty in SSN, SSNX and SOSA [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-268 - Include the changes for
observableproperty in ssn, ssnx and sosa [on Maxime Lefrançois
- due 2017-02-28].
<KJanowic> Can I jump in here for a moment?
<scribe> ACTION: Maxime to implement option 6 in ssn and sosa
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Implement option 6 in ssn and
sosa [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-02-28].
Resolving of several of the questions in the Actuation proposal for
SOSA/SSN as of discussion on wiki:
[18]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA
[18] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA
<KJanowic> [see above, can I say something wrt to
observableProperty]
subtopic: question 2
[19]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuat
ion§ion=3
[19] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuation§ion=3
<ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty
KJanowic: I wanted to mention in the previous topic
... I wanted to be sure that there will be no change to sosa
ahaller2: if it's already like this, there will be no change
<KJanowic>
[20]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuat
ion
[20] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuation
KJanowic: I changed some options,
# (sorry, I didn't get all of you said jano)
<KJanowic> Example updates, code updates, figure updated to
change the property and class name
kerry: actuatable is better than actuable, is more used
... it's still not an english word
<KJanowic> @mlefranc: SOSA:actuatedProperty changed to
SOSA:actsOnProperty and SOSA:ActuableProperty changed to
SOSA:ActuatableProperty
kerry: we have other words that occur in other ontologies, that
may be better. They are listed in the wiki
<KJanowic> language is in flux kerry
ahaller2: it's not in all dictionaries, but in some of them
... let's propose it first, and see how the group reacts
KJanowic: it's usual to create new technical words such as
"triplification", I believe actuable is a good property name
kerry: I'd like to suggest actionable property, similar to what
the Web of Things group is using
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the
class that is linked to an Actuation
<KJanowic> +1
<ahaller2> +1
<kerry> -1
<roba> +0
0
<DanhLePhuoc> 0
<SimonCox> 0
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActionableProperty for the
class that is linked to an Actuation
<Raul> 0
<KJanowic> -1
<kerry> +1
<Raul> +1
<ahaller2> 0
<DanhLePhuoc> 0
<KJanowic> (I agree with the point just made)
<ahaller2> josh: -1
so +1 on actuatable and -1 on actionable
<roba> -1
<KJanowic> Simon has not voted, right?
<ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty 2 +1, 5 0, 1 -1
<roba> can we have a ref link for the def of actionable...
<SimonCox> Need to keep clear the distinction between its
potential, and its actual role in an activity or event.
<joshlieberman> Actuatable +1
<SimonCox> Didn't follow Josh's argument
<ahaller2> sosa:ActionableProperty 2 +1, 3 0, 4 -1
ahaller2: for Actuatable that's +3, 4*0 and -1
<joshlieberman> Actionable implies that it promotes action, not
that it is the object of action.
ahaller2: for actionable, that's +2, 3*0, -3
<RaulGarciaCastro>
[21]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actionable
[21] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actionable
SimonCox: if we move back to observe and observable, observable
is the potential of being observed, and observe is the
existence of some situation where this actually occurs
<KJanowic> <ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty 2 +1, 5 0, 1 -1
---> should be 3x +1
joshlieberman: actionable means that something external can act
on the property to change its value
... whereas actuatable property means that the value can
change. Change comes from within, not from the external world
ahaller2: Raul posted a wiki page where he compares how things
are being modeled in WoT WG
DanhLePhuoc: the WoT WG is just starting, so they do not use
fixed terms for the moment, we should not 100% rely on their
choices for our own worlk
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the
class that is linked to an Actuation
<KJanowic> +1
<SimonCox> +1
<ahaller2> +1
<kerry> 0
<joshlieberman_> +1
<roba> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
+1
<RaulGarciaCastro> 0 (can live with it)
RESOLUTION: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that
is linked to an Actuation
<ahaller2> see
[22]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA
[22] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA
KJanowic: we voted on the class Actuatable Property, but we now
need to vote the property that links between an actuation and
actuatableproperty
<ahaller2> proposal for sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy
<KJanowic> yes
subtopic: question 3 in
[23]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Ques
tion_3:_naming_of_the_link_between_Actuation_and_xxxProperty
[23] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Question_3:_naming_of_the_link_between_Actuation_and_xxxProperty
<KJanowic> and then there is one important issue left to
discuss where I really need your help
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of
sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for connecting Actuation
to ActuatableProperty
<KJanowic> +1
<ahaller2> +1
+1
<SimonCox> +1
<kerry> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<joshlieberman_> +1
<roba> +1
RESOLUTION: Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for
connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty
KJanowic: I'd like now to talk about the link from the class
actuator to the property that it acts on
<KJanowic> yes
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
<KJanowic> I would absolutely try to avoid that (having the
same name for two totally different issues)
mlefranc: I do not see a problem with reusing the same name.
actOnProperty from actuator to ActuatableProperty, and
actedOnProperty from actuation to ActuatableProperty, perhaps?
... Using present and past could be a solution there.
<KJanowic> Okay, lets move on to Q4
<scribe> ACTION: mlefranc to add this specific question in the
wiki (question 10) [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Add this specific question in
the wiki (question 10) [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-02-28].
<KJanowic> I will add another question for this
kerry: ssn has modeled potential observation, whereas maxime
now proposes past tense
... are we thinking now not about potential, but also record ?
<KJanowic> LELts follow the chair and move on to Q4
mlefran: this is exactly my proposal
subtopic: question 4:
[25]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Ques
tion_4:_naming_of_invoked.2FinvokedBy_vs_madeObservation.2F.3F.
3F
[25] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Question_4:_naming_of_invoked.2FinvokedBy_vs_madeObservation.2F.3F.3F
<roba> must handle bith potential and result in a consistent
way - so scope needs to be both IMHO
KJanowic: vote 4 is simply to vote on what we have already in
sosa
... use term trigger, or invoke
ahaller2: I just added these properties, in Lisbon, now there
are more options, let's vote
I like option 4
<joshlieberman_> option 4 for me
<KJanowic> I would be in favor of invikedBy but I would be okay
with madeActuation
<kerry> I prefer option 1
<KJanowic> sensor?
option 3 is sosa:madeActuation/sosa:madeByActuator and
sosa:madeObservation/sosa:madeBySensor
I like option 4
<KJanowic> I would like to strongly object to this bundling
<SimonCox> and comparable for sampling:
madeSample/madeBySamplingDevice ?
+1 for Simon
roba: what about option 6, it's not exclusive with the other
options
<KJanowic> we didn't want to have subproperties in sosa
<SimonCox> or madeSamplingActivity/madeBySamplingDevice
ahaller2: yes, that's a super property we could additionally
use also
<KJanowic> we are talking about actuation now,not observation
<ahaller2> sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy
ahaller2: we are only talking about actuation now
<SimonCox> (but we are making a sideways look at observation
and sampling just to see if the patterns hold up)
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy
for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class
<KJanowic> @simonCox: yes, totally fine with that
+1
<KJanowic> +1
<SimonCox> +1
<kerry> 0
<ahaller2> +1
<joshlieberman_> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> -0.5 (I prefer actuatedBy)
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<roba> +0
<KJanowic> @RaulGarciaCastro: also fine with me, maybe yours is
even better
<kerry> +1 to Raul's comment -- can we reconsider?
me too
ok to reconsider
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuatedBy for the
property linking Actuation and the Actuator class
<Raul> +1
<kerry> 0
<ahaller2> 0
<KJanowic> 0
0
<joshlieberman_> -1 sounds like what actuation does to
actuatableProperty
<roba> 0
<KJanowic> @ahaller: can you make an action for me to implement
the actuation changes before the meeting ends?
<kerry> sugest: actuated/actuatedBy
actually yes, the domain of this property could be anything....
<KJanowic> no, we had a vote
<SimonCox> wordsmithing in a group is painful
<KJanowic> @simonCox: yes, and we had a vote
RESOLUTION: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the
property linking Actuation and the Actuator class
KJanowic: please create an action for me to implement this in
sosa.ttl
<SimonCox> When can we get to
[26]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Alignment_to_O%26M and
[27]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Sampling ? Both things
I was tasked with and followed up on now in limbo. The former
should be easy at least?
[26] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Alignment_to_O&M
[27] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Sampling
<ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to implement changes based on the
RESOLVED proposals in SOSA [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-271 - Implement changes based on the
resolved proposals in sosa [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due
2017-02-28].
<KJanowic> can we simply do 10min longer today?
<kerry> bye!
<ahaller2> bye
<Raul> BYe
<KJanowic> thanks, bye bye
<roba> bye
# what is the command to generate the minutes ?
<ahaller2> i will do it
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: KJanowic to implement changes based on the
RESOLVED proposals in SOSA [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Maxime to implement option 6 in ssn and sosa
[recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: mlefranc to add this specific question in the
wiki (question 10) [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: mlefranc to include the changes for
ObservableProperty in SSN, SSNX and SOSA [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]
Summary of Resolutions
1. [33]Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN
Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a
derivation of Option 5 several people have already
indicated their +1) on wiki:
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observabl
e_Property
2. [34]Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is
linked to an Actuation
3. [35]Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for
connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty
4. [36]sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the
property linking Actuation and the Actuator class
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:36:41 UTC