- From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 05:54:27 +0000
- To: SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
The minutes of this week's SSN meeting are at
https://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes with a snapshot below.
Spatial Data on the Web SSN Sub Group Teleconference
07 Feb 2017
[2]Agenda
[2] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:SSN-Telecon20170207
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-irc
Attendees
Present
Kjanowic, Kerry, rtroncy, ScottSimmons, DanhLePhuoc,
phila, ahaller2, SimonCox
Regrets
Chair
Armin
Scribe
Kjanowic
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]patent call
2. [6]Create Options for the modelling of Actuation,
Actuator and its relations
(https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/91),
i.e. change due date on
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/215
(create Action Item)
3. [7]Create Options for the modelling of Results/Values
in SOSA and SSN
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/90
(create Action Item)
4. [8]3. Create Options for the modelling of
Processes/Procedures in SOSA and SSN
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89
(create Action Item)
5. [9]Create Options for alignment on Platform class
(create Action Item)
6. [10]Vote on how to use annotation properties for
examples in SOSA/SSN
7. [11]O&M alignment options as of Simon's email in
response to ACTION-255 (and proposal to invite Simon
as editor to solve this and other issues)
8. [12]Proposed time slots for extended phone conference
mid-February
* [13]Summary of Action Items
* [14]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
patent call
Create Options for the modelling of Actuation, Actuator and its
relations ([15]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/91), i.e.
change due date on
[16]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/215 (create Action
Item)
[15] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/91),
[16] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/215
<phila> scribeNick: Kjanowic
Is anybody willing to model actuation in SSN
<ahaller2> Kjanowic: I volunteered, but we had other
conversations in between
<ahaller2> Kjanowic: until next telco
<Zakim> Kerry, you wanted to remark I think maxime did that
yesterday
kjanowic to draft SSN axioms on Actuators and Actuation for
next week
Kerry: can kjanowic look into the proposal of Maxime?
kjanowic: yes
ahaller2: yes, let's see what else is out there
yes
Create Options for the modelling of Results/Values in SOSA and SSN
[17]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/90 (create Action
Item)
[17] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/90
Ahaller2: a lot of discussion of how to model values and
results n SOSA and SSN
... Danh willlook into the results/values issue and coordinate
with kjanowic
Danh: Yes, I will do so and review the material and work with
kjanowic. I will create a wikipage as overview.
Ahaller2: In general using wikipages for all these subtasks
would be good.
<ahaller2> ACTION: DanhLePhuoc to create a wiki page and
discuss options around the use of Results in SSN/SOSA [recorded
in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Error finding 'DanhLePhuoc'. You can review and
register nicknames at
<[19]http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
[19] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users
<ahaller2> ACTION: Danh to create a wiki page and discuss
options around the use of Results in SSN/SOSA [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
[20] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-264 - Create a wiki page and discuss
options around the use of results in ssn/sosa [on Danh Le Phuoc
- due 2017-02-14].
3. Create Options for the modelling of Processes/Procedures in SOSA
and SSN [21]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89 (create
Action Item)
[21] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89
Ahaller2: we changed back and forth between processes and
procedures.
<kerry> sorry folks -- lost all power to house
Ahaller2: what we currently have currently is a procedure as
the description of workflows, e.g. like recipe.
... I can look into this
<ahaller2> ACTION: Armin Create to create options for the
modelling of Processes/Procedures in SOSA and SSN
[22]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89 (create
Action Item) [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
[22] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89
[23] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Create to create options for
the modelling of processes/procedures in sosa and ssn
[24]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89 (create
action item) [on Armin Haller - due 2017-02-14].
[24] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89
<Zakim> kerry, you wanted to ask for current topic
Ahaller2: we are currently assigning action items
<ahaller2> Create Options for alignment on Platform class
(create Action Item)
Create Options for alignment on Platform class (create Action Item)
Ahaller2: we had many discussions around the concept of a
platform.
<ahaller2>
[25]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Proposals_for_rewritin
g_SSN
[25] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Proposals_for_rewriting_SSN
Ahaller2: one such proposal was by kerry.
kerry: that was really only an example
... the point I was trying to make was the style, not the
concrete example
... I think we lost a bit of that original proposal made by
kjanowic at the very beginning
Ahaller2: about namespaces?
kerry: the example I gave works in both ways
Ahaller2: not sure what you mean?
SimonCox: Kerry, have you looked at the work we did before on
that?
Kerry: bidirectional interoperability is lost now from kjanowic
original proposal
... we probably gave up on horizontal by now but the proposal
as such is still valid
Ahaller2: please let us get back to ‘platform’
... namespaces will be discussed next week
Kerry: not about namespaces
Ahaller2: we want to discuss ‘platform’ now
let's get back on topic guys....
Ahaller2: we looked at architecture last week, but we got stuck
at namespaces. We will discuss this next time.
lets get back to the topic and also note that other people are
on the call
Kerry talks about properties of her suggested approach
<roba> its when restrictions change semantics, rather than
axiomitize them that this gets messy
Kerry: I have a well worked proposal for platform
<kerry> no!!!!
ahaller2: kerry, so please tell us about your platform idea
kerry, please lets get less emotional
<ahaller2>
[26]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Proposals_for_rewritin
g_SSN
[26] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Proposals_for_rewriting_SSN
ahaller2: we already agreed on the fact that ssn will import
sosa
<rtroncy> Can someone summarize what is the exact issue with
the definition of a "Platform" ? (regardless where this term
will be defined or refined)
Ahaller2: please look at the proposal and just extract the
platform part.
rtroncy has a question and I believe it is important
there are more people on this call...
Kerry: it is all already there
... should I do a change list
ahaller2: make a wiki/example for platform only
<ahaller2> Kjanowic: if we look at the mapping, the SSN
definition for Platform is more generic
<ahaller2> Kjanowic: SOSA should be more generic in its
annotation
<ahaller2> Kjanowic: axiomatically they are equivalent
rtroncy: kjanowic answered the question [difficult to
understand...]
<kerry> issue-88?
<trackbot> issue-88 -- Why is a sosa-core platofrm completely
different to an ssn:platform? -- open
<trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/88
[27] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/88
kjanowic was tring to answer rtroncy question
<rtroncy> I also asked whether the problem was not described in
issue-88?
<rtroncy> It seems so ...
Ahaller2: can you make one wikipage just for ssn and sosa
platform without the general architecture, just the platform.
<ahaller2> ACTION: Kerry to Create change list for alignment on
Platform class in a seperate wiki page [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-266 - Create change list for
alignment on platform class in a seperate wiki page [on Kerry
Taylor - due 2017-02-14].
Ahaller2: next topic o&m alignment
Vote on how to use annotation properties for examples in SOSA/SSN
Ahaller2: let us briefly talk about annotation properties for
examples in SOSA/SSN
... idea was to split definition and example.
<ahaller2> Option 1: Use skos:example in SOSA/SSN and declare
it an owl annotation property
Ahaller2: this is especially important for sosa due to less
axioms
<ahaller2> Option 2: Define our own annotation property -- e.g.
sosa/ssn:example
ahaller: please vote on option 1
<ahaller2> Proposed: Use skos:example in SOSA/SSN and declare
it an owl annotation property
<rtroncy2> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<SimonCox> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
+1
<laurent_oz> 0
<ahaller2> +1
<kerry> +1 subject to not importing skos
<roba> +1
<ScottSimmons> +1
Ahaller2: do we want to import skos?
<rtroncy2> There is no need to import
<ahaller2> Option: Import or not import SKOS?
<SimonCox> -1 no import of skos
<RaulGarciaCastro> -1
kjanowic: if we only use skos:example there is not need to
import
<ahaller2> PROPOSE: If skos:example is the only class/property
in either SSN or SOSA we do not import SKOS
+1
<phila> +1
<kerry> +1
<rtroncy2> +1
<ahaller2> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
<roba> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<ScottSimmons> +1
<phila> I see no reason to import SKOS
<laurent_oz> no import (but more general concern about the
compatibility of reuse of schema.org meta-model and use of skos
(e.g. like in RDF data cube)
<SimonCox> +1 - I would extend to any SKOS annotation property
<ahaller2> Kjanowic: what about multiple examples?
<SimonCox> i.e. I would say would could use any SKOS annotation
property without importing SKOS
<ScottSimmons> I must leave the meeting, if things come down to
close votes, SimonCox has my proxy
<phila> +1 SimonCox
+1 SimonCox
laurent_oz: [too much noise]
<rtroncy2> Raphael: yes, we could make multiple occurrences of
skos:example but I would like to remind that they are just
annotation properties and as such, there could be redundancy in
the information.
SimonCox: the way you posed the issue was limited to only
skos:example. If we talk about annotation properties, we have
no problem anyway. We can use any of the skos annotation
properties withou the need to import.
<rtroncy2> Raphael: I would therefore just use one occurrence
of the property even if it gathers multiple examples in the
literal
ahaller2: let us make this another agenda item
Kerry: we should have multiple skos:example triples when needed
<ahaller2> PROPOSE: use multiple skos:example annotation
properties where necessary
I am also in favor of multiple examples being possible
<roba> +1 for all annotations : i think its consistency
requirement - we need to follow the same pattern - so i think
the vote implies the default position is we should treat all
skos annotations the same way
<SimonCox> +1
<ahaller2> +1
+1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<rtroncy2> 0
<kerry> +1
<laurent_oz> +1 to multiple examples (but also keen on having
other resources to learn from outside the ontology)
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
<roba> +1
O&M alignment options as of Simon's email in response to ACTION-255
(and proposal to invite Simon as editor to solve this and other
issues)
Ahaller2: let us move to O&M alignment
SimonCox: I did this on github but just posted the text in an
email so that you can all look at it.
<ahaller2> SimonCox: email to the list Tue, 7 Feb 2017 21:36:29
+0000
SimonCox: there is an officially endorsed version of how to
convert from UML to URLs (by ISO)
<SimonCox>
[29]https://github.com/ISO-TC211/GOM/tree/master/isotc211_GOM_h
armonizedOntology/19156/2011
[29]
https://github.com/ISO-TC211/GOM/tree/master/isotc211_GOM_harmonizedOntology/19156/2011
SimonCox: my proposal is to use those URIs for the alignment
... this enables us to express the alignment in a pretty
compact way and not just text
<kerry> simon, did you mean alignment from sosa to ssn as you
said?
SimonCox: the question really is whether the official ISO URIs
are suitable to denote the UML classes and properties.
... would this become normative or not.
... om-lite could also be added as note
<Zakim> kerry, you wanted to coment on what an O&M alignment
looks like
<DanhLePhuoc> +q
SimonCox both SOSA and SSN
Kerry: I get the URL idea but this is really ugly.
... Alternative is to use the OGC O&M specs and do any
alignment to O&M by text
SimonCox: the OWL you get from the automatic conversion is ugly
but I am not suggesting that. I am focusing on the nice side
effect of minting URLs and those are defined in a standard and
are canonical.
<laurent_oz> 1: tried to derive graphics out of the ISO .ttl
(result not very good) 2. am now looking at the published UML -
found that here was also "implementation" packages in it 3.
questions to Simon: are there plan to publish O&M in this
branch of HMMG (this could be the best source to derive OWL
from).
<laurent_oz> Also: they are official URIs but very badly
defined (need some tidying)
Roba: the alignment is a separate document. It is my
understanding that it does not effect SSN or SOSA axioms
simoncox: no, same document
... but yes, this does not change sosa/ssn
<ahaller2> ahaller2
Roba: the intention is just to use the URIs?
<ahaller2> ahaller2: it is not a vote yet on if it is normative
or non-normative
<laurent_oz> ... e.g. when I say tidying, I mean tracking the
official prefixes and removing the ones which have number at
the end.
simonCox: yes, that is the idea
Roba: last comment. Skos notations could be used here.
... SKOS notation not annotation.
... I am just saying that this is an option.
<SimonCox> laurent_oz: don't intend to do anything with the
prefixes. Use the official ISO URIs
<Zakim> kerry, you wanted to cjeck thatthose uris are
resolvable
kjanowic: simon's proposal is to establish formal relations
between the URIs and classes and properties in SOSA/SSN
Kerry: These URIs are not resolvable.
<laurent_oz> Simon, sometimes a nice prefix is used in some
places and a different one is used elsewhere: my idea is to use
the most recognisable one (so that in the future if we have a
better OWL version it will use the same prefixes (likely) and
so our work will not be lost.
kerry: fine with me but may be a problem for ssn
laurent_oz: I tried to look into this and visualize it but that
was not easy. Do we know what is on the horizon for O&M?
SimonCox: this is a persistent standard in its own right.
<ahaller2> kerry: was pointing out the non-resolving of URIs
may be an issue for W3C, check with Phila
laurent_oz: not all of them are easily readable URLs
<ahaller2> URIs are restricted to
[30]https://github.com/ISO-TC211/GOM/tree/master/isotc211_GOM_h
armonizedOntology/19156/2011, is this correct, Simon?
[30]
https://github.com/ISO-TC211/GOM/tree/master/isotc211_GOM_harmonizedOntology/19156/2011,
<roba> Agree with Simon regarding the appropriateness of the
URI, and there is a bigger question about OGC/ISO definitions
space- alignment with specref may provide a good solution here
IMHO
Proposed time slots for extended phone conference mid-February
Ahaller2: last topic for having longer meetings, e.g., some
time in Feb.
... I will prepare a doodle.
... this is just about mappings, i.e., alignment. nothing more
bye bye
<kerry> bye!
<RaulGarciaCastro> Bye
<DanhLePhuoc> bye bye
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Armin Create to create options for the modelling
of Processes/Procedures in SOSA and SSN
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/89 (create Action
Item) [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Danh to create a wiki page and discuss options
around the use of Results in SSN/SOSA [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: DanhLePhuoc to create a wiki page and discuss
options around the use of Results in SSN/SOSA [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Kerry to Create change list for alignment on
Platform class in a seperate wiki page [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
[31] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03
[32] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02
[33] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01
[34] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/07-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 8 February 2017 05:54:54 UTC