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[Minutes-BP] 2016-03-09

From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 16:06:53 +0000
To: SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <56E04A1D.9090804@w3.org>
The minutes of today's BP sub group meeting are at 
www.w3.org/2016/03/09-sdwbp-minutes with a snapshot below.

The discussion centred on the narrative 
(https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Narrative) suggested originally 
by Bart and now under development by many.

Text snapshot below:


                             SDW BP Sub Group

09 Mar 2016

    [2]Agenda

       [2] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20160309

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/09-sdwbp-irc

Attendees

    Present
           billroberts, phila, Linda, Rachel, MattPerry, eparsons,
           AndreaPerego

    Regrets
           Kerry, Josh, Lars, Scott, Jeremy

    Chair
           Linda

    Scribe
           phila, Rachel

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Narrative
          2. [6]Merging BPs
          3. [7]AOB
      * [8]Summary of Action Items
      * [9]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    <scribe> scribe: phila

    <scribe> scribeNick: phila

    <Linda> [10]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

      [10] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

    Linda: No minutes to approve as it's the first meeting of this
    type.
    ... main agenda. 2 things to do.
    ... First is to look at the narrative scenario we've been
    working on and whether that helps us/drives us to restructure
    ... Second is to see if we can merge some BPs as we get
    comments that they're very detailed.

Narrative

    <Rachel> scribe: Rachel

    Linda: use the narrative so we can restructure BP
    ... then revisit the issues not yet addressed
    ... then add examples

    <eparsons> +1 to that approach

    Linda: is that clear ?

    <billroberts> yes, clear

    <Linda> [11]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Narrative

      [11] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Narrative

    <phila> Linda: Bart vW said he could provide a scenario/real
    life use case in the Fire Dept

    Linda: at F2F Amersfoort Bart volunteered to write scenario,
    real use case

    <phila> Linda: He just has an outline so far

    <phila> Linda: This is interesting. Multi-disciplinary is
    normal for flooding cases.

    <phila> Linda: Talks around Bart's 5 points:

    <phila> A flooding scenario has a lot of angles which are
    interesting to our work:

    <phila> Multidisciplinary, there are multiple official agencies
    involved in dealing with these scenario's

    <phila> Multilingual ( at least in the European context this is
    of great interest )

    <phila> The data around this scenario needs to be findable,
    indexable on the web

    <phila> the data should be communicated in a way that 'mortals'
    can use the spatial component of it.

    <phila> data created by mortals should be usable by official
    entities

    <phila> Linda: And then discussed the text a little more:

    <phila> During high water season both water boards and
    meteorological services monitor the levels of water and
    precipitation to indicate potential risks. If the worst case
    scenario combinations occur these agencies start dispatching
    their people to the field to monitor the real situation of
    dikes and dams. The people are dispatched to specific
    locations. when reporting they will need to report the
    situation on the specified location but also everything they
    have encounter

    <phila> ed on the way there.

    <phila> In the mean time on various social media sources
    civilians will start reporting unusual situations about the
    weather and water level. The location information in these
    reports is not as exact as that of the official agencies.

    <phila> The agencies will communicate the actual status of the
    various water works through official channels, but with their
    own jargon. combining all the sources to create a overall
    picture needs alignment and understanding of the terminology
    used.

    <eparsons> Nice link to opendata a bonus

    <phila> Linda: I've used this story to combine it with our BPs

    <phila> eparsons: I really like this approach, I think it will
    work very well. What's the process you'd like us to follow to
    help to fill it out?

    <phila> scribe: Payam

    <phila> scribe phila

    <phila> scribe: phila

    eparsons: We could volunteer to take parts of the story each.
    ... It's the linking to the BPs that is probably the hardest

    <Payam> eparsons: we can decide who is going to deal with which
    part of the BP (story)

    Rachel: You could divide the story up by the participants in
    the story

    <Payam> Rachel: different points of views (e.g. citizen view on
    social media)

    Rachel: So take the POV of citizens posting on social media
    etc.

    <Payam> phila: is worried about use-cases; forcing to change
    narratives to fit the BPs; is there a room for multiple
    narratives or one narrative would be enough

    phila: Wonders whether one narrative is enough?

    Linda: We thought we could probably fit all the BPs into this
    one story.
    ... If that turns out not to be the case, I'd try to expand it
    so that it does fit, but we don't want it to be far fetched.
    ... We could have multiple stories as long as people write
    them. I don't think the editors have enough time to write more.

    Rachel: Does this have to be a real use case, with real data,
    or can we make up some of it.

    Linda: As long as it fits the story, and is not too strange,
    then OK to invent some of it to tell the story.

    <Payam> +q

    Payam: I'm wondering if we can ask people to volunteer
    examples. Otehrs may have better examples for a part of the
    narrative.
    ... If we have any items left then we can assign them.

    Linda: I don't mean assign, I don't want to tell people, I'm
    hoping that people will come forward because they have
    experience or examples.

    Payam: We should give people a deadaline to work towards. e.g.
    you have a week to offer to write an example. After that we
    start making assignments

    <Payam> yes

    Linda: So you're saying that we can divide the BPs, so I vol
    for BP1 and look for where it fits in the story and then write
    an example for that.

    <Payam> multiple stories for one BP should be also fine

    Payam: Yes

    eparsons: I think I agree with tha approach. I was going to
    volunteer to handel the organisational publishing - BP6, 6.2, 7
    - that part of the narrative.
    ... That looks like the way to break it up. Different people
    tend to be responsible for different areas. Easier to take a
    specific role.
    ... Might be a number of times where the same BP is used in the
    story. So make it role based, not BP-based.

    Rachel: If we do it per actor, then if we see BPs always coming
    up in pairs together that would give us evidence to merge some.

    Linda: I'm seeing an order. First we get the story straight,
    get the BPs fixed and then we can see where we can merge.
    ... So we might want to do the structuring first, before
    thinking about merging.

    eparsons: Yes, as actors we might see the BPs that come up more
    frequently.
    ... So we can make good use of time by looking at the actors
    and who might be involved. I think, for example, that the app
    developer is missing from the story at the moment

    (PhilA gently cries and hopes eparsons means Web developer)

    <Payam> +q

    <eparsons> app are just facades to the web

    <eparsons> :-)

    Rachel: People may want to pick out old images and historical
    data.

    Payam: I like the idea of actors as we can therefore voice what
    they benefit from following the BP, or by others following
    those BPs.
    ... The 2nd thing I wanted to say, we have written lots of
    smart cities stories. We asked for volunteers and in the end we
    assigned ones to people who hadn't vounteered.

    <eparsons> A sign of intelligence - thinking before speaking

    Rachel: At BGS we have experience of giving out info on ground
    water flooding. We had to respond under emergency circumstances
    outside the normal licence conditions so I can help from that
    angle.

    Linda: So we have the professional publisher actor, other orgs
    using this professional data, citizens using social media,
    developers,
    ... journalists
    ... emergecny responders
    ... citizens who are in danger of being floodced

    <Payam> +q

    <Payam> [12]http://www.ict-citypulse.eu/scenarios/scenario/2

      [12] http://www.ict-citypulse.eu/scenarios/scenario/2

    Linda: They seem the most obvious to me

    Payam: The URl above is an example of what we did before in
    this space. We had differnet actors and were able to say why
    th4e BPs were beneficial.

    Linda: These are prtty short narratives. The flooding one is
    one that can be apparent throughout the doc.

    eparsons: I agree. I think we have to spend the first part of
    the doc literally telling a story. Perhaps the flood event as
    it happens over a period of time.
    ... Your initial in, is the story, where the BPs are being
    used, then further on you get more detail.
    ... I think there will be a couple of pages just telling the
    story

    Linda: That's what I was thinking as well. Have this as a main
    story and having hter BPs embedded in that and then fleshed
    out.
    ... Not sure if we need a separate part of the doc that has the
    BPs in more detail

    eparsons: I'm thinking that some parts of the doc need to be
    more normative, especially if we're linking out to stuff. I
    think there is a requirement for a reference by reference
    approach.
    ... If you know what the problem is, you can go straight to the
    BP that's relevant to you.

    Rachel: Just wondering how we're going to handle things like
    the 5 star system. How will we include in the narrative that 1
    star is useful, for example.
    ... So for social media, it's helpful to geotag your tweets and
    images nut most people don't.
    ... Do we deal with real life where people don't follow BPs.

    eparsons: I'd say that within the narrative, we have an element
    of fiction. One of the water boards is publishing its data in
    geoJSON with an open lcience and say somewhere that is is
    better than a PDF or a paper map in a draw.
    ... It's the BP *because* it's not doing X
    ... We had 20K tweets but because they weern't geocoded or bady
    geocoded we couldn't use them.

    Linda: Maybe in some cases you could give examples of
    publishing something with 1 star or 2 stars but it would have
    been better with more stars as we could havae done Y.

    <Rachel> +1 to Ed's approach

    Linda: I think we only need to review the story as we have it
    now. I think everyone should review it and see which actor you
    would like to write about.
    ... And then next week we can come back to this and see who
    wants to do what or who has already done something.

    eparsons: Will Bart be on the call next week?
    ... I think that would be very helpful as the domain expert.

    Linda: Don't know at the moment. He's on his annual ski trip in
    Switzerland at the moment so he's reachable but may not be well
    connected. I;ll ask

    eparsons: In the meantime, why don't we add whatever we can,
    maybe add in other actors as appropriate. And then get Bart's
    input.

    Linda: I'll get in touch with bart and see if he can be on the
    call next week. if not can he comment already.
    ... next week is a joint call with the whole WG.

    eparsons: Yep.

    <eparsons> +1

    <Rachel> yes

    <billroberts> yes

    Linda: Is everyone fine with working on the wiki for this?
    ... So I propose we use that wiki page and everyone can edit as
    they see fit. I will add the actors from these minutes that I
    was summing up earlier.

    <eparsons> Great !!

    <Rachel> ok!

Merging BPs

    Linda: We had some comments on the BPs in the WD. The BPs were
    seen as too detailed. They wanted a more high level approach.

    <Linda> [13]http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/

      [13] http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/

    Linda: The first BPs in section 5.1
    ... First one is use globally unique HTTP IDs
    ... 2nd is to reuse existing IDs when available.
    ... Third one on URIs again.
    ... Then things that change over time
    ... Those first 4 could perhaps be merged to one on creating
    identifiers.
    ... They could be described in a possible approach to
    implementation

    <eparsons> +1

    Linda: That's the kind of line we're thinking along here.

    <Rachel> +1

    <AndreaPerego> +1

    <billroberts> +1 that sounds like a good idea tome

    <eparsons> Dont think its that big a problem actually

    phila: You need to know if you have passed a BP or not. That
    encourages small BPs

    eparsons: The BPs we have appear complex because they're out of
    context
    ... When we build the narrative, I think that will become
    clearer.
    ... I think this is the resukt of sharing hte WD so early

    Linda: I think it's good that we're not trying to merge yet. It
    may turn out that we need some grouping but I think it's good
    that we're starting with the scenario.
    ... But I want you to have this in the back of your minds.

AOB

    Linda: Anything else?

    [crickets]

    <eparsons> Linda sounds like a steam engine

    <billroberts> nothing more from me

    Linda: Wraps up. Please review the narrative as we have it now.
    think about the actors we have and what you might be able to
    contribute.

    <eparsons> thanks everyone - thanks scribe phil !

    Linda: Thanks for attending. next week we have a call at the
    normal time (20:00 UTC)

    <billroberts> ok thanks

    <Payam> thank you

    <eparsons> bye !

    <Linda> bye

    <Payam> bye

    <billroberts> bye

    <Rachel> bye!

    <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!

    <MattPerry> bye

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 9 March 2016 16:06:46 UTC

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