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[Minutes] 2016-01-20

From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:33:11 +0000
To: SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <56A5F9E7.7060903@w3.org>
A little later than normal, the minutes of last week's minutes are at 
https://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-sdw-minutes with a snapshot below.

           Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference

20 Jan 2016

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-sdw-irc


           kerry, robin, frans, Linda, ClemensPortele, aharth,
           ahaller2, joshlieberman, ChrisLittle, jtandy, SimonCox,
           MattPerry, AndreaPerego, ClausStadler

           Danh, Phil, Ed, Bart, Bill, Scott, Alejandro, Payam




      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]patent call
          2. [5]extra item: workshop
          3. [6]f2f
          4. [7]F2F meeting Amersfoort
          5. [8]SSN Modularisation: what does a good ontology
             modularisation look like? see
          6. [9]SSN Tools: what tools for collaborative ontology
             editing? http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SSN_Tasks
      * [10]Summary of Action Items
      * [11]Summary of Resolutions

    <kerry> rragent, make logs public

    <kerry> scribe: frans

    <kerry> scribenick:frans

    <kerry> scribenick: frans

    <Linda> Thanks Kerry!

    <joshlieberman> webex password?

    <ChrisLittle> v4qtEh56

    <scribe> chair:kerry

    <scribe> chair: Kerry

    <scribe> chair: kerry

    <joshlieberman> Thanks ChrisLittle

    <KJanowicz> Hi Kerry, can I very briefly talk 2 min about the
    workshop proposal?

    PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes:

      [12] https://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-sdw-minutes

    <jtandy> +1

    <ClemensPortele> +1


    <kerry> +1

    <KJanowicz> +1

    <ahaller2> I was attending last week, probably forgot present

    <ChrisLittle> +1 minutes

    <Linda> +1

    <MattPerry> +1

    <ahaller2> no problem

    <ahaller2> +1

    RESOLUTION: accept last weekÅ› minutes

patent call

    <kerry> patent call:

      [13] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

    kerry: no comments on patent call

extra item: workshop

    KJanowicz: SSN workshop will be held

    KJanowicz organizes together with Josh

    kerry: where and when?

    <ahaller2> \ Can you post the link?

    <KJanowicz> [14]http://giscience.geog.mcgill.ca/

      [14] http://giscience.geog.mcgill.ca/

    KJanowicz: Montreal 27 september - 30 september
    ... please send in ideas for the workshop


F2F meeting Amersfoort

    kerry: I made a draft agenda
    ... copying the agenda in the IRC, please have a look

    <kerry> [15]http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Agenda_F2F3

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Agenda_F2F3

    kerry: people who are not going: please look at the times
    ... enough presence of SSN people is questioned

    <SimonCox> I'll be a bit hit and miss on the wire

    comments can be added to the wiki

    <joshlieberman> Later in the day is certainly better for those
    in the US east.

    ChrisLittle: need more time

    <KJanowicz> can somebody post the wiki link to the list of
    participants for the F2F?

    <AndreaPerego> Participants:

      [16] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Attending_F2F3

    <ahaller2> sounds good

    jtandy: BP editors have some topics for the agenda
    ... they will ask for real world examples

    kerry: chris, please make a suggestion for a time slot for time
    ... frans, please place request for UCR time on the wiki

    <kerry> ack

    Linda: start and end times?

    kerry: I think it depends on the venue

    Linda: I have the key so anything is possible

    kerry: nine to six?
    ... and a lunch break

    <ChrisLittle> +1 to 9-6 and lunch and coffees

    <AndreaPerego> +1 from me

    <ChrisLittle> * any hagelslaght?

    ClausStadler: not certain of attendence yet

    kerry: please put attendence on the wiki

SSN Modularisation: what does a good ontology modularisation look
like? see


    kerry: objection to SSN was complexity
    ... it is common to just use a bit of the vocabulary
    ... do people have ideas on good modularization?

    <KJanowicz> +1

    kerry: modularisation may be a topic in coverage and time as

    ahaller: horizontal and vertical modularization

    <SimonCox> Good modularization: limit external dependencies

    KJanowicz: event model (which?) is a good example

    kerry: please post a link of the example

    <KJanowicz> [18]http://semanticweb.cs.vu.nl/2009/11/sem/

      [18] http://semanticweb.cs.vu.nl/2009/11/sem/

    <KJanowicz> see, for instance,

      [19] http://semanticweb.cs.vu.nl/2009/11/img/Fig1.jpg

    <KJanowicz> +1

    ahaller2: generally agrees, but there should not be too many

    <ahaller2> ... and put all upper level relations in one module

    kerry: what is modularisation? Is it multiple files?

    aharth: different namespaces are probably needed

    <ahaller2> +1

    <KJanowicz> This is how we addressed the problem in Geolink:

      [20] http://schema.geolink.org/

    joshlieberman: imports could be a problem

    <KJanowicz> +1

    kerry: the point is being able to use just a bit, without
    bother from other stuff

    <KJanowicz> it is more than that

    <SimonCox> Namespace issue has nasty interaction with
    linked-data assumptions

    joshlieberman: perhaps it is just a question of documentation
    and visualization

    <KJanowicz> +1

    ahaller2: memory consumption on lightweight devices is a factor

    <SimonCox> disagree with @ahaller regarding motivation for

    <KJanowicz> also logical implications

    (I am sorry, I did not get the message)

    <SimonCox> agree with KJanowicz - need to be able to remove
    unintended/unfortunate entailments

    <KJanowicz> modularization also important to avoid strong
    'ontological commitments'

    kerry: no clear solution yet, but worthwhile to hear different

    ClausStadler: what about the data cube vocab?

    <SimonCox> Yes - overlap with several other ontologies. OBOE,

    kerry: SSN predates data cube vocabulary

    <SimonCox> BCO is aligned with BFO, so takes fundamental
    continuant/occurrent split as a starting point

    kerry: not sure whether data cube affects modularization

SSN Tools: what tools for collaborative ontology editing?

      [21] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SSN_Tasks

    <KJanowicz> also: avoid problems like whether we allow for
    virtual sensors or now

    ahaller2: GitHub can be used, but webprotege has limitations

    <KJanowicz> Why not use DL functional syntax first?

    ahaller2: suggestions for online tools?

    <ClausStadler> just one note: with git it would be possible to
    add e.g. a pre-commit hook which prevents being able to commit
    a non-validating file, but not sure if existing validators
    would fit your needs

    jtandy: phil has looked around how others do it
    ... has one person been responsible. or were there more

    <KJanowicz> Lets not be driven by tools too early in the

    KJanowicz: start simple, like pen and paper

    <KJanowicz> [22]https://www.yworks.com/products/yed

      [22] https://www.yworks.com/products/yed

    Linda: in a Dutch project no online solution was found
    ... Topbraid and subversion was used in the end

    <SimonCox> For collaborative editing/merging need effective
    diff mechanism!

    <KJanowicz> Agreed but this is what you would have yed and
    other concept maps for

    ahaller2: warns against shutting out people

    <KJanowicz> the same will happen in protege, the axioms require
    an understanding of OWL

    <SimonCox> Its not Turtle that is the issue, it is RDF!

    ahaller: use webprotege only for classes and properties

    <joshlieberman> It seems possible to work on both a graph level
    and an axiomatic level. The graph level is more accessible.

    <KJanowicz> agree with Josh

    joshlieberman: just the graph view could make the ontology more

    <SimonCox> How to ensure graph/axiom views are correctly

    <KJanowicz> We could use VOWL for that

    kerry: axioms are probably the most of the work

    <KJanowicz> [23]http://vowl.visualdataweb.org/protegevowl.html

      [23] http://vowl.visualdataweb.org/protegevowl.html

    kerry: what is VOWL?

    <joshlieberman> There is time-zone specific humor, apparently.

    <ahaller2> the problem is with the Protege desktop version is
    that it will always scramble the source code

    <SimonCox> +1 ahaller2

    aharth: no strong opinion, no magic solution either

    <SimonCox> Would be good if Protege joined the 21st century and
    used turtle instead of rdf/xml

    kerry: afraid that this topic is not going to be resolved

    <Linda> Why not Topbraid then?

    <KJanowicz> This is merely a serialization

    <SimonCox> Canonical serialization ?

    <ahaller2> does any23 produce a reliable serialisation?

    <kerry> ACTION: ahaller2 to look at tools for ontology editing
    [recorded in

      [24] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-sdw-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-133 - to look at tools for ontology
    editing [on Armin Haller - due 2016-01-27].

    <KJanowicz> IMHO our main challenge will be to develop a good
    formalization. Tools and serializations are secondary, lets
    make sure they do not hold us back.

    Linda: topbraid has a free version

    SimonCox: there is a limit on visualisation (diagrams)
    ... Topbraid does better serialization

    <KJanowicz> Do they have a linux version?

    <ClausStadler> i don't know about any23, but for comparing
    changes in RDF files I was using raptor to convert arbitrary
    rdf syntaxes ([25]http://librdf.org/raptor/ | sudo apt-get
    install raptor2-utils) to ntriples followed by a sort - not
    sure what happens with blank nodes though (i try to avoid them,
    but with owl axioms it would be a pain)

      [25] http://librdf.org/raptor/

    <joshlieberman> [26]http://lodlaundromat.org ?

      [26] http://lodlaundromat.org/

    <ClausStadler> (what andreas just says ;) )

    <joshlieberman> Also possible to use one of the "alignment"
    tools as the diff generator.

    aharth: if we use canonical RDF we can use different tools

    <SimonCox> N-Triples is always most reliable route to canonical
    form, but least inspectable visually!

    kerry: that would be an ideal solution

    <KJanowicz> Aidan's paper

      [27] http://www.www2015.it/documents/proceedings/proceedings/p430.pdf

    sorry josh, I did not get that

    <aharth> a quick way would be just sort an N-Triples file, if
    there are blank nodes, use the algorithm from: Aidan Hogan,
    "Skolemising Blank Nodes while Preserving Isomorphism", WWW
    conference 2015

    kerry: josh, please note the idea in the wiki

    Linda: the LOD Laundromat could be used to clean up RDF

    <joshlieberman> Alignment tool example: LogMap --

      [28] http://csu6325.cs.ox.ac.uk/

    kerry: time is up, next topic will be postponed
    ... reminder: please let us know about involvement in F2F

    <ChrisLittle> bye and thanks Kerry

    <KJanowicz> bye bye

    <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye

    <joshlieberman> bye and thanks

    <ClemensPortele> bye!

    <MattPerry> \quit

    <kerry> bye!


    <kerry> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: ahaller2 to look at tools for ontology editing
    [recorded in

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-sdw-minutes.html#action01

Summary of Resolutions

     1. [30]accept last weekÅ› minutes

    [End of minutes]
Received on Monday, 25 January 2016 10:33:46 UTC

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