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Re: Coordination (was: ES6 Modules)

From: Rick Waldron <waldron.rick@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 00:49:06 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHfnhfr0ZO5ajkAkQmgE9=Nx_8mBePKEaV-ZQi4Fk+q-rMbWMw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dirk Pranke <dpranke@chromium.org>
Cc: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>, "public-script-coord@w3.org" <public-script-coord@w3.org>, Brendan Eich <brendan@mozilla.com>, Robin Berjon <robin@w3.org>, Erik Arvidsson <erik.arvidsson@gmail.com>, es-discuss <es-discuss@mozilla.org>
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:17 PM, Dirk Pranke <dpranke@chromium.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Rick Waldron <waldron.rick@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > The "DOM side" should all be subscribed to es-discuss and read it on a
>> > regular basis. Additionally, our f2f meeting notes are a great way for
>> them
>> > to keep up to date, as well as providing a good jump off for questions
>> and
>> > concerns.
>> Given the number of people working on platform APIs that "should"
>> seems ever less likely to become a reality. We need a different
>> strategy.
> I also think you need a different strategy. If people interested in
> defining new APIs for the web have to be tracking how the JS language
> itself is evolving, this is a total failure of both one or both sides.

This statement negates itself—people defining new APIs have an obligation
to understand the language in which the APIs they are writing will be used.

> A slightly more ridiculous example to prove my point would be to suggest
> that web spec authors should also be tracking the minutes of WG21 (the ISO
> C++ committee), since all of these APIs are actually being implemented in
> C++ :
> However, I grant that there are three valid points between where we are
> and where we want to be:
> 1) A great many existing DOM APIs are very un-JS-friendly


> 2) We need better examples of what JS-friendly APIs are (or should be)

I can't believe I'm reading this, as if you believe there are no examples
of real world code that is very JS-friendly?

As far as "outreach", in my own experience whenever I've offered feedback
directly to DOM API authors, I'm frequently met with responses such as
"that's not consistent with the platform [/end]".

> 3) TC39 et al. need to give us a language where we can build sane DOM APIs
> without feeling like we need to change the language to do so :).
Meanwhile, library authors have no trouble designing sane DOM APIs that web
developers enjoy using. The difference: library authors listen to their
users, DOM API authors do not.

> To that end, we probably do need more *short-term* interaction, but I
> don't think asking everyone working on a DOM spec to follow es-discuss is
> the best way to do so. There's actually very little overlap between what is
> talked about most of the time on es-discuss and the sort of stuff a DOM
> spec author cares about.

So far today, every response from a non-TC39 member has been to the tune of
"I want something, but I don't want to work for it, so find another way to
give it to me, but I don't have any suggestions". There is no free lunch.
If you want to know what's going on, here's the subscription page:


> -- Dirk
Received on Saturday, 13 April 2013 04:49:54 UTC

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