Re: A reflexion about Schema

Would the situation be different if you were interpreting and combining RDFa and JSON-LD? Their underlying model is the same whereas Microdata's is less graph and more tree-like.

Ultimately, though, I'd expect that I'd be building (or trying to build) a single graph for the page just picking a format/expression for that graph-which could span multiple formats/expression spaces (typically one inline-RDFa or Microdata and one in the head-JSON-LD).

It's a dream anyway, so I'm curious how close we may already be...or aren't yet...

Thanks for starting this converation!
Benjamin
Co-Chair, JSON-LD WG<https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/json-ld>/CG

--
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________________________________
From: Álvaro Pichó <alvaro@seolevante.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:40 AM
To: Tony McCreath <tony@websiteadvantage.com.au>
Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>; schema.org Mailing List <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: A reflexion about Schema


Thank you for your attention Tony, ClassySchema is a wonderful and useful tool.

From my professional opinion, that Gogole not tie, or not allow tying, microdata with JSON, takes us to a limit that is too close, like: "oh, only up to here?"


As this is a discussion group, far away how this email began, I would like to add that semantic web is very related to information cartography.

I don't hear or read you talking about this.

Thera are valuable articles such as 'A metro map can tell a story, as well as provide good directions', By Dafna Shahaf, Carlos Guestrin, Eric Horvitz, and Jure Leskovec.

The simpliest conclusion of it, is that it is only possible to map the information from a query made, all starts with a query: no query, no map.

Cartography looks like a living being; semantic web looks like a sleeper being.

Perhaps the goal of cartography information is the semantic web, and viceversa, the goal of the semantic web is to cartography the information.

More than one person, will also see the relationship that I also see in it.

[cid:1683798026645cb80aecdab681080705@seolevante.com]

I love this matter

Best regards to all, I'm a David among Goliats

Álvaro Pichó Torres

Consultor SEO

seolevante.com<https://seolevante.com/>

619 832 611<tel:+34619832611>

[cid:22529d8082aa8fdbe24aadfcff97f6e1@seolevante.com]<https://seolevante.com/>

NOTA IMPORTANTE: Le informamos que este mensaje está dirigido a las personas indicadas en el encabezamiento y que puede contener información confidencial. Si Ud. lo ha recibido por error le rogamos nos avise inmediatamente y destruya este mensaje. En ningún caso deberá copiar, distribuir o tomar iniciativa alguna en relación con su contenido. En cumplimiento de lo previsto en la Ley Orgánica 15/1999, de 13 de diciembre de Protección de Datos de Carácter Personal, le comunicamos su e-mail junto con los datos que nos facilite y nos haya facilitado, constan en un fichero titularidad de Álvaro Pichó Torres a los efectos de mantener el contacto con Ud. Puede ejercitar sus derechos de acceso, cancelación, rectificación y en su caso, oposición, enviando un escrito al efecto, acompañado de una fotocopia de su D.N.I., bien respondiendo a este correo electrónico, bien a la siguiente dirección: C/Cuenca, nº41- pta. 14. 46008-Valencia.


El 11/05/2023 03:05, Tony McCreath escribió:

Hi Álvaro,



I developed ClassySchema and I deliberately kept JSON-LD and Microdata separate, because that's what Google does.



These days I only see sites with both when they have made a mistake and are duplicating things. Or they are for disjoint entities like say breadcrumbs in microdata and product in JSON-LD.



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Tony McCreath
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From: Álvaro Pichó <alvaro@seolevante.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 11:09 PM
To: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
Cc: schema.org Mailing List <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: A reflexion about Schema



Thank you for your attention Mr. Brickley, and sorry for the bad translation.

Now I re-read: "Tying JSON-LD...", better than joining, "ranking factor" better than calssification factor.

SAAS as https://classyschema.org/ shows the same separeted or untying micro-formats.

Best regards,

Álvaro Pichó Torres

Consultor SEO

seolevante.com<https://seolevante.com/>

619 832 611<tel:+34619832611>

[cid:1683798026645cb80aecca6587375143@seolevante.com]<https://seolevante.com/>

NOTA IMPORTANTE: Le informamos que este mensaje está dirigido a las personas indicadas en el encabezamiento y que puede contener información confidencial. Si Ud. lo ha recibido por error le rogamos nos avise inmediatamente y destruya este mensaje. En ningún caso deberá copiar, distribuir o tomar iniciativa alguna en relación con su contenido. En cumplimiento de lo previsto en la Ley Orgánica 15/1999, de 13 de diciembre de Protección de Datos de Carácter Personal, le comunicamos su e-mail junto con los datos que nos facilite y nos haya facilitado, constan en un fichero titularidad de Álvaro Pichó Torres a los efectos de mantener el contacto con Ud. Puede ejercitar sus derechos de acceso, cancelación, rectificación y en su caso, oposición, enviando un escrito al efecto, acompañado de una fotocopia de su D.N.I., bien respondiendo a este correo electrónico, bien a la siguiente dirección: C/Cuenca, nº41- pta. 14. 46008-Valencia.



El 10/05/2023 15:22, Dan Brickley escribió:

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Schema.org community. Excuse the short reply but on your main observation about JSON-LD and Microdata, the issue is a known one and relates to the way Google's tooling currently works (the validator is provided by Google). I will relay your comments to my colleagues.



Cheers



Dan



On Wed, 10 May 2023, 06:36 Álvaro Pichó, <alvaro@seolevante.com<mailto:alvaro@seolevante.com>> wrote:

Hello dear Mr. Brickley& Schema Team

I am Álvaro Pichó, independent SEO consultant from Valencia (Spain).

First of all, I am a fan of your work from Schema and I am professionally very interested in Schema itself and in the semantic web.

I am writing to tell you a couple of sensations since I am a medium-advanced user of structured data.

Joining JSON-LD and Microdata

From professionals like Daniel K Cheung (https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielkcheung/) and Ashraf (https://schemantra.com/blog/authors/ash/), I have learned that one virtue of Structured Data is knowing how to establish relationships with each other.

This is wonderful, but it is only possible between microformats themselves, i.e. you cannot join Microdata with JSON-LD.

In the case of ecommerce, Microdata is very useful and necessary for categories and products, and JSON-LD is very valuable for main categories.

With a JSON I am able to do this:


But the JSON-LD conjunction with Microdata in a category, JSON in the <head> and microdata over the Magento *.phtml file, even building the URIs correctly, do not understand each other:

1)


2) From the same Schema validator:


Honestly, I think that for the benefit of the semantic web, they should be able to understand each other, now, I don't know how.

CLASSIFICATION

On the other hand, why implementing Structured Data is not a classification factor?

I'm sure now you will think "Ah, how smart this guy is, what he wants is to benefit from all this", well it's partly true, but let me comment a couple of things.

I have watched your talk with Jason Douglas 'Google I/O 2013 - From Structured Data to the Knowledge Graph' https://youtu.be/yp8AjMBG87g and I have read your paper 'Schema.org Evolution of Structured Data on the Web', with R.V. GUHA GOOGLE, DAN BRICKLEY GOOGLE and STEVE MACBETH MICROSOFT

On the one hand, you talk about greater or lesser adoption of these techniques, and what better stimulus for adoption than an improvement in the rankings.

On the other hand, I know that there are technologies like Yoast that automate the creation of Structured Data, but like everything in this life, creating an elaborate and comprehensive Schema Mark Up should be the clear sign of a thorough, artisan and human work, I think it would be easy to detect when it has been achieved with a click, to when there has been a careful work.

And to this careful work, I refer again when it will be clear that it is not the result of an automated artificial intelligence work.

In short, it is a scenario of clear human work.

And here it is pertinent to put into perspective the competition between small and large companies.

I believe that an implementation of nested and careful Structured Data, is a scenario of advantage of small companies against large ones.

I run an ecommerce that among other products, has 40 backpacks and I compete against other websites that have 400 and 4000 backpacks, truly my website (https://validator.schema.org/#url=https%3A%2F%2Fsolohombre.es%2Fmochilas-hombre-online-comprar-1.html) is more well maintained than those of the big ones (https://validator.schema.org/#url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.es%2Fmochilas-hombre%2Fs%3Fk%3Dmochilas%2Bhombre).

Give us, or let us, to little guys something to compete against the big guys.

Yesterday I was watching another video, where the SEO consultant on duty, advises that in Type > Article > Text, we put the whole article, more than 1000 words! Oh my God!

There's the abusive practices again.

But I think you will know how to evaluate the Structured Data built and discriminate that it is an exquisite work of a work to weight.

Nothing more Mr. Brickley, thank you very much for your time and best regards.

Álvaro Pichó Torres

Consultor SEO

seolevante.com<https://seolevante.com/>

619 832 611<tel:+34619832611>


NOTA IMPORTANTE: Le informamos que este mensaje está dirigido a las personas indicadas en el encabezamiento y que puede contener información confidencial. Si Ud. lo ha recibido por error le rogamos nos avise inmediatamente y destruya este mensaje. En ningún caso deberá copiar, distribuir o tomar iniciativa alguna en relación con su contenido. En cumplimiento de lo previsto en la Ley Orgánica 15/1999, de 13 de diciembre de Protección de Datos de Carácter Personal, le comunicamos su e-mail junto con los datos que nos facilite y nos haya facilitado, constan en un fichero titularidad de Álvaro Pichó Torres a los efectos de mantener el contacto con Ud. Puede ejercitar sus derechos de acceso, cancelación, rectificación y en su caso, oposición, enviando un escrito al efecto, acompañado de una fotocopia de su D.N.I., bien respondiendo a este correo electrónico, bien a la siguiente dirección: C/Cuenca, nº41- pta. 14. 46008-Valencia.<https://seolevante.com/>