RE: Birth is an Event, not just one dimensional fields applying to a single Person

Thank you so much for your comments. I agree with everything you’ve mentioned. These are very important concerns in a modern context. 

 

However, when a “notable” person who publishes or gives permission to someone else to publish them, these details may be of significance to that person to make public. Beyond all the concerns related to healthcare, these details have relevance in a historical context. So if someone is going to reveal these details in an appropriate context that isn’t in violation of privacy laws, lets encourage them to express the data unambiguously, not in some highly obfuscated codification. 

 

LOINC and SNOWMED have been efforts to standardize recordkeeping with the same intention. My feelings are that putting health data, or health reporting, into schema format provides for a more open-ended ability to drill into details that future providers may find salient to the individual cases.  For example if I was forensically recording the details around a drug overdose event for a celebrity it may be useful to reveal that the doctor who prescribed the drugs, who hired them, what the drugs were, the lot, the place of purchase. All of that can be included in schema gracefully with precise meaning while other modalities fall back on free text.  

 

Back to birth as an event, for example , if I was going to design an AI to scope out histocompatibility I’d want it to include births as events, not just trust the person’s name or who they identify as “Parents” in their Person schema. That term “parent” can mean many things, and the people who identify as parents at birth may not be as useful from a healthcare perspective as the Person(s) from whom the individual’s genetics originate. [Let’s leave room for clones.]

 

If we consider the Person schema closely, there’s a lot of security sensitive information that would be a liability for a living person to publish about themselves: their social security number, email address, website, place of birth, mother’s name etc. Yet we shouldn’t exclude these properties from a Person schema because they may be used in non-public systems. 

 

I think this brings up a good philosophical point, that accurately representing “reality” may often conflict with law or liability. Instead of recognizing laws around handling data I’d rather create an undebatable dangerous thing and leave it to people who are handling it to discern the legal ramifications in their case. There may be cases where data is collected, stored and used totally covertly, for inhumane purposes. That’s a consequence of creating powerful technologies. I trust people to govern themselves, especially when it comes to their professions and the stakeholders they’re acting for. I trust that more people will do good than the few who don’t. There are IT professionals who feel the opposite how I do, and that’s good. People like both of us can collaborate on balanced systems, making powers measured and secured.  

 

I don’t want people to make chainsaws illegal because of the abundance of ability for folks who aren’t trained with them to seriously hurt themselves. I want to saw through as much wood as I can in as short a time as possible. I’ll trade the risk of consequences over power. But yeah, of course, caveat emptor. 

 

-JP 

 

Jason Pelish

Founding Partner – Marketer

Massive Impressions Online Marketing

Boca Raton, FL 33431

(561) 232-2424

(866) 800-3579
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From: Tarik Najeddine <tarik.najeddine@gmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 2:32 PM
To: jason@massiveimpressions.com
Cc: public-schemaorg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Birth is an Event, not just one dimensional fields applying to a single Person

 

Hi Jason & the Schema working group! 

 

While I don't have the hard technical expertise to speak to the difficulty of implementation, I would note that birthDate, birthProcedure, birthCertificate, and possibly birthDoctor could be viewed as Personal Health Information in some circumstances. This would make the data protected and possibly private, which this schema might hamper legal compliance of HIPAA for. Additionally, in the case of adoption, divorce, and child emancipation, the child might not want this information machine readable by default without their consent. 

 

Happy to unpack the PHI/PII concerns or assist in any way I can. 

Sincerely, a SEO who used to work in healthcare,

 

Tarik Najeddine

SEO Director, Albert

New York City, NY

(917) 723-6341

tarik.najeddine@albert.com <mailto:tarik.najeddine@albert.com>  

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:07 PM <jason@massiveimpressions.com <mailto:jason@massiveimpressions.com> > wrote:

When I record the information around birthDate and birthLocation, publishing the Person schema, it doesn’t feel complete. There’s a lot of information that’s valuable yet not represented in the schema. I propose that the birth of Person(s) be represented with a new field, new Property, under Person, one that has the Expected Type BirthEvent, a specific type of Event. A birth is a super-significant event in the creation of a Person, not some flat piece of information lightly recorded. 

 

Properties would include:

 

birthedPerson – Person – could be one or multiple in the event of twins

birthLocation

birthOrganization – Organization – the hospital, medical center or simply the establishment in the event of an unplanned place of birth

birthDate 

birthDoctor – Person – head medical professional presiding over the birth

birthTechnician – Person(s) – can include nurses or other people on staff who witnessed or participated in the event

birthCertificate – MediaObject (?) – Document (?)

birthProcedute – CreativeWork

biologicalFather – Person – should only be one but could be hypothetically multiple instances of Person when it’s not certain – this is admittedly a big can of worms but we should start out simple

biologicalMother – Person – hopefully this can be narrowed down to a single instance of Person

legalParent – Person – a person identified as a legal parent where the local authority doesn’t require identifying as either the mother or the father. 

legalFather – Person – in the case where an identified Person has legal fatherhood over the birthed Person(s)

legalMother – Person – in the case where an identified Person has legal motherhood over the birthed Person(s)

 

Additional Extension to Person : birthname – text

 

What else? I suppose you could get funky and put cultural specific values in like Godmother/Godfather, but I’m trying to nail down the cross cultural, universal type of stuff first. 

I think this is important to account for the different facets of parenthood and the fact that often Persons are born during the same event (twins etc)

 

I look forward to your collaboration. 

 

-JP 

 

 

Jason Pelish

Founding Partner – Marketer

Massive Impressions Online Marketing

Boca Raton, FL 33431

(561) 232-2424

(866) 800-3579
https://2vu.me/m - Massive Impressions site

https://2vu.me/C - The Click Whisperer site

https://4boca.com – 4boca Local site