- From: Jeff Thompson <jefft0@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:44:21 +0200
- To: public-schemaorg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <0480bc07-c370-2da5-e916-592159d3e983@gmail.com>
The lack of progress in this conversation shows the limitation of the
static propositional view of knowledge representation taken by the
semantic web. The teams that are making real progress have abandoned the
static approach to modeling knowledge and realize that a model is a
program that a cognitive system executes to explain some data. That is
the semantics. Without specifying how the program will be executed with
some sample data, there is no knowledge representation. For example,
here is what Gamalon says who has the world's state-of-the-art language
representation system: "models should be programs"
https://gamalon.com/technology/
Trying use static ontologies and triples to do something more
sophisticated that tabulating data will fail (as this thread and the
lack of progress over the decades has shown).
- Jeff
On 2018/06/20 5:48, Sebastian Samaruga wrote:
> Events denoting dimensional changes of State (measures / observations)
> over an entity? Periods / processes: spans while an observation in
> respect to a (dimensional) concept remains the same?
>
> State: countryPresident,
> Event: presidentialElection,
> Period / Process: presidentialRuling.
>
> Still thinking in a more semiotical / dimensional approach.
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 10:58 PM Sebastian Samaruga <ssamarug@gmail.com
> <mailto:ssamarug@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Semiotically, an Event could be regarded as the occurrence of a
> Concept in the form of a Sign for a given Object (metaclass /
> class / instance relationship). Occurrences of entities happens as
> dimensional measures, not only temporal or physical ('birthdays'
> could be a 'dimension'). Measures bring Data from which Contexts
> (schema) could be aggregated. And from schema one could infer
> Interactions or roles in behaviors (DCI OO design pattern).
>
> This is roughly sketched at:
> https://github.com/ssamarug/ssamarug/blob/master/Metamodel.pdf?raw=true
> <https://github.com/ssamarug/ssamarug/blob/master/Metamodel..pdf?raw=true>
>
> I think dimensional modelling approach is not only useful in OLAP
> cubes but also in the Semantic Web. For example in this Event /
> Period dilemma.
>
> Is this discussion pertinent to the SW community in general
> (semantic-web)? As this is an ontological issue I'm including the
> corresponding list. Regards,
>
> Sebastián.
> http://exampledotorg.blogspot.com
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 10:38 PM <Simon.Cox@csiro.au> wrote:
>
> That is signified by the fact that '19 June 2018' doesn't have
> a name, only an index.
>
> An 'event' that happened on that day would probably have a
> name relating to the activity.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter F. Patel-Schneider [mailto:pfpschneider@gmail.com
> <mailto:pfpschneider@gmail..com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 June, 2018 11:17
> To: public-schemaorg@w3.org <mailto:public-schemaorg@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Historical events
>
> I think that ages are qualitatively different from events.
> Consider a very short age - 19 June 2018. As far as I am
> concerned that is not an event.
>
>
> peter
>
>
>
> On 06/19/2018 05:06 PM, Anthony Moretti wrote:
> > Look, I'm no temporal expert or anything, but maybe the
> problem is in
> > English it could be a continuum from "event" to "period" as the
> > interval of time being named gets longer, with no clear
> boundary.
> >
> > Mike's birthday party - an event
> > The Middle Ages - a period
> >
> > Because from a data modeling point of view they're the same
> (at least
> > as far as my modeling knowledge goes).
> >
> > So an unpopular solution I'm guessing would be to rename the
> type to
> > *EventOrPeriod*.
> >
> > So your previous example:
> >
> > The Black Death
> > superEventOrPeriod: The Middle Ages
> >
> > People's ideas?
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:10 PM Richard Wallis
> > <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
> <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
> > <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
> <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Anthony,
> >
> > I’m not following your logic here. I don’t see a Period
> (of time from a
> > start time/date to an end date/time) as an event.
> >
> > ~Richard.
> >
> > Richard Wallis
> > Founder, Data Liberate
> > http://dataliberate.com
> > Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
> > Twitter: @rjw
> >
> > On 20 June 2018 at 00:05, Anthony Moretti
> <anthony.moretti@gmail.com <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com
> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > That definitely works, but only if some definition
> of Period was
> > agreed on.
> >
> > The property periodEventOccurred would be a
> subproperty of
> > superEvent in any case:
> >
> > superEvent
> >
> > periodEventOccurred
> >
> >
> > So you could describe the same information using the
> existing term
> > right?
> >
> > The Black Death
> >
> > superEvent: The Middle Ages
> >
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 3:50 PM Richard Wallis
> > <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
> <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
> > <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
> <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > Using a Period Type I would suggest a cleaner
> alternative way of
> > saying an event occurred during a period would
> be like this:
> >
> > {
> > "@context": "http://schema.org",
> > "@type": "Event",
> > "name": "The Black Death",
> > "Description": "A pandemic that spread
> throughout Europe",
> > "periodEventOccured": {
> > "@type": "Period",
> > "name": "The Middle Ages",
> > "approximateStartDate": "400AD",
> > "approximateEndDate":"1500AD"
> > }
> > }
> >
> > On 19 June 2018 at 23:41, Anthony Moretti
> > <anthony.moretti@gmail.com
> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>
> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com
> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > I was referencing the development version of
> Schema, I
> > should probably reference production, sorry
> Roger:
> >
> > * https://schema.org/subEvent
> > * https://schema.org/superEvent
> >
> > To say some event happened during the Iron
> Age for example:
> >
> > Invention of iron plow
> > superEvent: Iron Age
> >
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 3:05 PM Muri, Allison
> > <allison.muri@usask.ca
> <mailto:allison.muri@usask.ca> <mailto:allison.muri@usask.ca
> <mailto:allison.muri@usask.ca>>> wrote:
> >
> > The google Cloud host is really slow and
> I think the 404
> > is a result of something loading too
> slowly. I could
> > probably publish this more reliably on
> my own website! I
> > generally just wait a bit and reload the
> page. Sorry
> > about that.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jun 19, 2018, at 3:58 PM, Roger Rohrbach
> > <roger@ecstatic.com
> <mailto:roger@ecstatic.com> <mailto:roger@ecstatic.com
> <mailto:roger@ecstatic.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >> I get 404 Not Found for both of those
> pages.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jun 19, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Anthony
> Moretti
> >>> <anthony.moretti@gmail.com
> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>
> >>> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com
> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Isn't it already modeled by these
> properties?:
> >>>
> >>> * https://webschemas.org/subEvent
> >>> * https://webschemas.org/superEvent
> >>>
> >>> Events can exist in part-whole
> hierarchies, aren't
> >>> named periods just events high in
> these hierarchies?
> >>>
> >>> Anthony
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 20 June 2018 08:58:30 UTC