Re: Eurocentrism, incorrect unit abbreviations, and proprietary Royalist Engish (sic) terms

Could some limit on name changing perhaps be set by the steering group?
Something like I don't know:

   - 18-month initial name freeze
   - 4-year name freezes thereafter

I understand the need for stability, but right now it seems difficult to
make any changes. Like Vicki said it's hard to name things, so we shouldn't
expect to get names right the first go, especially when the hierarchy
evolves and names that more more sense become apparent. Here are some
examples of types that could do with minor corrections:

   - RsvpAction (RSVPAction)
   - UnRegisterAction (UnregisterAction or DeregisterAction)
   - RsvpResponseType (RSVPResponseType)
   - CampingPitch (IndividualCampsite)
   - LakeBodyOfWater (Lake)
   - OceanBodyOfWater (Ocean)
   - RiverBodyOfWater (River)
   - SeaBodyOfWater (Sea)
   - LandmarksOrHistoricalBuildings (LandmarkOrHistoricalBuilding)

With the CampingPitch example, I can't tell whether the suggestions are
being turned back because they aren't improvements, because of stability
reasons, or because of both. Freeze periods might reduce subjectivity of
the stability part of individual term discussions, and at the same time
would allow the steering group to set the floor on overall stability.

Anthony


On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:56 AM Anthony Moretti <anthony.moretti@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On that I'd argue that names and definitions are also documentation, so
> documentation could be said to exist in this order of importance:
>
>    1. Type/property name
>    2. Type/property definition
>    3. Examples and other documentation
>
> I think with MTEs there's actually no need for CampingPitch, a Campsite
> can also be an Accommodation, but I think it's useful as a convenience.
>
> Schema is commerce focused and it's useful to identify commercially
> available items, so the pattern to find here might be commercially
> available units of space and time. With the context of commerce you might
> be able to have:
>
> Campsite
>     IndividualCampsite
>
> ParkingSpace
>     IndividualSarkingSpace
>
> PlayArea
>     IndividualPlayArea
>
> TrainingArea
>     IndividualTrainingArea
>
> PerformanceSpace
>     IndividualPerformanceSpace
>
> MeditationArea
>     IndividualMeditationArea
>
> ClimbingStructure
>     IndividualClimbingStructure
>
> AnimalEnclosure
>     IndividualAnimalEnclosure
>
> I'm not suggesting all these types, just showing there might be a usable
> pattern, and renaming CampingPitch may fit in that.
>
> Anthony
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2018, at 9:46 AM, David Riccitelli <david@wordlift.io> wrote:
>
> I believe that what's most important is that machines can process the
> schema.org vocabulary.  IMO having the vocabulary sound familiar to
> humans should be just an aid and the documentation can always be expanded
> to better explain the terms and guides such as
> https://schema.org/docs/hotels.html provide a great insight on how to
> exploit them.
>
> Translating the properties would make things more complicated and hard to
> process.
>
> Consider the other side of the spectrum, i.e. how properties are labeled
> in Wikidata or what terms look like in many standardized taxonomies.
>
> David
>
>
>
> On 11 July 2018 at 18:26, Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net> wrote:
>
>> Just my opinion, but schema.org terms, such as classes and properties,
>> are machine readable code; the fact that they are based on english words is
>> an artifact of the original curation. You don’t find other languages, such
>> as “C” and “Python”, creating keyword variants for different locales.
>> Internationalization comes in for the labels and descriptions of these
>> terms. We should probably be consistent on the form of english for
>> spellings and word choices, many organizations standardize on American
>> English.
>>
>> Where this may break down is in the cultural biases that are used in
>> creating a hierarchy, and we should strive to identify these and address,
>> where practical.
>>
>> Gregg Kellogg
>> gregg@greggkellogg.net
>>
>> On Jul 5, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Pete Rivett <pete.rivett@adaptive.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> The proposal suggests, but does not make explicit, that in American
>> English campsite is a synonym for CampingPitch.
>>
>> Nitpick – there is a superfluous “s” in the following:
>> means an area where an individual, family, group, or military unit can
>> pitch a tent or parks a camper;
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 5, 2018 6:58 AM
>> *To:* Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* schema.org Mailing List <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Eurocentrism, incorrect unit abbreviations, and
>> proprietary Royalist Engish (sic) terms
>>
>> @Thad & others,
>>
>> The Campground <https://schema.org/Campground> type has the following
>> description:
>>
>>
>> A camping site, campsite, or campground is a place used for overnight
>> stay in the outdoors. In British English a campsite is an area, usually
>> divided into a number of pitches, where people can camp overnight using
>> tents or camper vans or caravans; this British English use of the word is
>> synonymous with the American English expression campground. In American
>> English the term campsite generally means an area where an individual,
>> family, group, or military unit can pitch a tent or parks a camper; a
>> campground may contain many campsites (Source: Wikipedia, the free
>> encyclopedia, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campsite).
>>
>>
>> Which I think covers things.
>>
>> Whereas CampingPitch <https://schema.org/CampingPitch> has this:
>>
>>
>> A camping pitch is an individual place for overnight stay in the
>> outdoors, typically being part of a larger camping site.
>>
>>
>> Which, under the current discussion, is a little lacking.
>>
>> I therefore propose this:
>>
>>
>> A [[CampingPitch]] is an individual place for overnight stay in the
>> outdoors, typically being part of a larger [[Campground]].
>>
>> In British English a campsite, or campground, is an area, usually divided
>> into a number of pitches, where people can camp overnight using tents or
>> camper vans or caravans; this British English use of the word is synonymous
>> with the American English expression campground. In American English the
>> term *campsite* generally means an area where an individual, family,
>> group, or military unit can pitch a tent or parks a camper; a campground
>> may contain many campsites.
>> (Source: Wikipedia see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campsite).
>>
>>
>> Thoughts/comments?
>>
>> ~Richard.
>>
>>
>> Richard Wallis
>> Founder, Data Liberate
>> http://dataliberate.com
>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>> Twitter: @rjw
>>
>> On 5 July 2018 at 14:12, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Since I care more about "Getting things done"...
>>
>> As to the Campsite/Campground ... the USA and its government is fairly
>> clear and standardized on a Campground being the larger area and individual
>> reservable "pitchs" as being called "campsites".  The NPS.gov has the
>> data available as well with annual campsite bookings.  Here's one example:
>>  https://www.nps.gov/maca/planyourvisit/campgrounds.htm
>>
>> And Texas and other states started "campsite" or "camping pitch" specific
>> booking system just this year.
>> https://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/park-reservation-information/site-specific-booking
>>
>> So we probably could make mention about "campsite" and "campground" in
>> the definition to improve things.  So let's at least do that to make things
>> clear on both sides. :-)
>>
>> A camping pitch *(in the USA, a campsite)* is an individual place for
>> overnight stay in the outdoors, typically being part of a larger camping
>> site *or campground.*
>>
>> *@Richard* - would you mind doing that to improve the definition a bit ?
>>
>> -Thad
>>
>>
>>
>