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Re: Proposal – extension for Athletics

From: Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:32:47 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMbipBugDvSEUo=OmWfMT2GAiBQeygknDtHsQXAt2L95vmJgAw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
Cc: Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
Thanks all for your input.  I especially like your classifications of
awards and prizes Thad, and the narrower definition of prize you provide -
though regarding that definition, only to a point:
> Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event

I'm more aligned with Phil here:
> So how about changing the definition to explicitly say what Aaron
asserted (and allow for >1 prize):
> "A prize awarded for a competition"

Though mostly for the "and allow for >1 prize" part, so the Thad definition
might be modified to say:
"Prize - award given to a winner or winners of a competitive event"

Examples of prizes awarded to more than one winner of a competition abound,
of course - think gold, silver, bronze for an Olympic Games competition.
Which is why in our model we have the following properties (all of data
type "integer"):
position - The position to which this prize is awarded.
maxPosition - The highest position (lowest number) to which this prize is
awarded.
minPosition - The lowest position (highest number) to which this prize is
awarded.

maxPosition and minPosition are useful because there are often events - er,
competitions - for which the same prize is awarded to a range of
competitors that finish.  Most critically here for video game competitions
(and many other types of competitions) is that players in the top X advance
to the next round, where the prizeAwarded is a Qualification.

Tangentially (and without going too far down a rabbit hole) I'll note that
many "awards for an achievement" are often IMO de facto "prizes for a
competition" despite how they're labelled - and especially when an award is
time-bound.  The 2011 Academy Award for Best Picture is really an prize
awarded for a competition - the competitors being those pictures nominated
for Best Picture for that year.  On that note I'll note with thanks too the
feedback provided on whether on not a prize should be restricted to
something awarded for an *event*, which narrowing the definition of a prize
to be an award for a *competition* solves, I think.

> A Nobel Prize may not fall within this definition, but maybe it is more
like an award for passing an exam than a prize for athletics or solving
crossword puzzles.

Without wanting to be contrary, even for something like the Fields Medal
1998 or Nobel Prize for Literature 2001 I think Thad's "prize" definition
is more applicable than his "award, badge, achievement" definition.  At
least in the sense you don't get a Nobel Prize for, say, finishing writing
something, but for being the best writer of things among an implicit but
very real field of competitors (all writers of things, for the Fields all
practitioners of mathematics).  So I do think that it *is* actually more
like a prize for athletics than an award for passing an exam.  On the other
hand, I do concede that a Nobel Prize isn't awarded for an event per se -
almost more like a prize awarded for a *season *(analogous in sport to
something like the Heisman Trophy, although there the competitors -
nominees for the award - are explicit).


On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> Yeap, we're saying the same things.
> I was pointing out the subtle differences also.
>
> 1. Completing something
> 2. Discovering something
>
> 3. Receiving something for accomplishing # 1
> 4. Receiving something for accomplishing # 2
>
> (In English we have multiple words to choose for all 4 of those concepts)
>
> Where this proposal is for # 3.  I get that. I understand that.
>
> But there are Type needs for # 1, # 2, and # 4  where we are missing
> subtypes that we currently don't have.
>
> # 3  Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event
> # 4  Award, Badge, Achievement - an award for finishing or completing a
> Goal
>
> # 2 Discovery
> # 1 Finished
>
> I don't want to mix the 4 concepts in Schema.org.  Another vocabulary
> besides Schema.org is welcome to mix those and confuse publishers and
> machines.
>
> (I also prefer my definition of a Prize, since it mentions its given to a
> winner, and less confusing when translated to other languages.  Whereas
> Aaron's definition gives the feeling that the prize is given to the
> competition itself and not the winner)
>
> Anyways, I think the above now summarizes my true feelings.
> -Thad
> +ThadGuidry <https://www.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
>
Received on Wednesday, 17 May 2017 22:33:22 UTC

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