- From: Young,Jeff (OR) <jyoung@oclc.org>
- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 23:00:16 -0500
- To: "Young,Jeff (OR)" <jyoung@oclc.org>, "LAURA DAWSON" <ljndawson@gmail.com>
- Cc: <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>, <public-schemabibex@w3.org>
To update, I see that as-of 2010, there is a place in MARC to store ISTCs. http://www.loc.gov/marc/marbi/2010/2010-dp04.html I can run a Map/Reduce job to see what that yields in WorldCat. If there is another source of information (such as an ONIX dataset), though, it might help. I've been intending to take a closer look at ONIX in general, but having a starting place to focus might help. Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: Young,Jeff (OR) > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:41 PM > To: 'LAURA DAWSON' > Cc: <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>; <public-schemabibex@w3.org> > Subject: RE: cleaned up CommonEndeavor example > > Laura, > > Sorry, ISTC didn't come to mind because I'm barely aware of its > existence. Any theory on this is a good theory. Is there some sample > data available that we could examine? > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: LAURA DAWSON [mailto:ljndawson@gmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:35 PM > > To: Young,Jeff (OR) > > Cc: <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>; <public-schemabibex@w3.org> > > Subject: Re: cleaned up CommonEndeavor example > > > > Please let's not forget ISTC? > > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 10:30 PM, "Young,Jeff (OR)" <jyoung@oclc.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Karen, > > > > > > The thought that a Wikipedia page could be considered to represent > > the > > > Work has been bugging me for awhile too. I've heard Roy Tennant use > > > the term "Ground Truth" when it comes to mapping MARC to BIBFRAME. > > > My feeling is that this Wikipedia comparison for Work is a credible > > > variant of that. > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Karen Coyle [mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net] > > >> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:44 PM > > >> To: public-schemabibex@w3.org > > >> Subject: Re: cleaned up CommonEndeavor example > > >> > > >> Jason, thanks for working on this. CommonEndeavor is a corollary > to > > > the > > >> work/Instance proposal. Work/Instance assumes a hierarchy -- that > > you > > >> have a Work like "Moby Dick" that is published in many forms, and > > >> that you have identifier for that Work that is more abstract than > > any > > >> of > > > the > > >> actual publications. For example, a Wikipedia page could be > > >> considered to represent the Work, not any of the specific > > >> publications. The Instance then is an Instance of that work. > > >> > > >> In many cases you do not have an identified "thing" for the Work, > > >> or > > > at > > >> least you don't have one handy at the time you are creating the > > >> metadata. But you do, for example, have two different publications > > of > > >> Moby Dick and you know they represent the same content. So > > >> "CommonEndeavor" (which may not be a good name for it) is a way of > > >> saying that these two things share their creative content. > > Eventually > > >> these may be able to connect to a work and then they would become > > >> instances of that work. > > >> > > >> On 1/26/13 11:04 AM, Jason Ronallo wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Is there a URI for this Book? If so it could be used either as > the > > >>> value of the itemid attribute or as the value of the url > property. > > > If > > >>> itemid is used in the example, then it would remove some blank > > nodes > > >>> in the RDF output. (Microdata processors that know about the > > >>> Schema.org vocabulary should probably treat the url property in > > >>> the same way. Schema.org promotes the url property instead of > > >>> itemid > > for > > >>> some reason.) Even though the Schema.org examples don't use > itemid > > >>> there is no reason why we couldn't show better examples that do > > >>> use the attribute. > > >> > > >> There could be a URI for the Books. Actually, there could be more > > >> than one for each book since bibliographic data often gets a > > >> handful of > > >> identifiers: the identifier of the national library that > originally > > >> created the record, the identifier of OCLC when the record entered > > > that > > >> database, the identifier of the local library system where the > > record > > >> currently resides, as well as an ISBN. Which one is "the" > > >> identifier that should be the URI for the book is not always > clear. > > >> I tend to favor the local system number from the system that most > > >> recently exposed the bibliographic data as the "subject" URI, with > > >> the others > > > as > > >> additional identifiers. > > >> > > >> All that to say that I can easily make up a URI for each of these > > >> items. :-) > > >> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> If commonEndeavor is a property of CreativeWork then the expected > > >> type > > >>> (as is given in the Overview section) should be a CreativeWork. > > >>> Currently, how this parses is as a list of URLs (since the value > > >>> of > > >> an > > >>> itemprop on an a element is the value of the href attribute). So > I > > >>> think the example is a poor one as it doesn't show how we'd like > > > this > > >>> to be used. This might in fact be the kind of data that > publishers > > >> end > > >>> up creating, but the example we give should be more correct and > > show > > >>> more of the expressiveness. > > >> > > >> I'm afraid you lost me here. I copied a bunch of stuff from the > > >> work/instance page [1] but had trouble fitting it into my example. > > If > > > I > > >> have sufficiently explained the intention, please feel free to > make > > > the > > >> example better. If not, contact me and I'm happy to work with you > > >> on it. > > >> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Is the CommonEndeavor proposal one that the group is still > > >> considering > > >>> pursuing? > > >> > > >> I believe it is still on the table, and so appreciate any work you > > > wish > > >> to do on it. As I say above, my main goal was to have a horizontal > > >> relationship between bibliographic items in addition to the > > >> vertical relationship of work/instance, especially when the Work > > >> information isn't available (which at the moment it usually > isn't). > > >> In current library work there are a number of horizontal > > >> relationships being > > >> considered: > > >> - adaptation of (e.g. a book made into a movie; a children's > > >> version > > > of > > >> an adult text) > > >> - translation of > > >> - arrangement of (for music) > > >> > > >> etc. CommonEndeavor is kind of a catchall, and the more specific > > >> relationships, where known, would be preferable. > > >> > > >> I don't feel strongly that we have to include this particular > > >> vocabulary term, but I just don't think that we've got the data to > > > make > > >> much use of the hierarchical relationships at this time. > > >> > > >> kc > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> If so, I can update the example to use the expected type for > > >>> this property. I mainly just wanted to give an example of how the > > >>> examples could be formatted to make it easier to evaluate them > and > > >>> show the tools used to generate the output. If there is a desire > > >>> an RDFa Lite example with resulting RDF could also be created, > > >>> though > > > it > > >>> ought to be very similar to the Microdata one. > > >>> > > >>> Jason > > >>> > > >>> [1] > > >> > > http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/CommonEndeavor#Simple_ex > > >> a > > >>> mple_showing_HTML_markup > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Karen Coyle > > >> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net > > >> ph: 1-510-540-7596 > > >> m: 1-510-435-8234 > > >> skype: kcoylenet > > > > > > > > >
Received on Sunday, 27 January 2013 04:00:40 UTC