Re: goals wrt FRBR/RDA (was Re: Works and instances)

I guess I'm the "anti-Gordon" because I am a confirmed FRBR doubter. It 
seems to me that schema.org needs to mark up bibliographic data that is 
exposed on the web. Remember that schema.org marks up *displays* -- it 
is not designed to mark up data as it is stored in databases. If we get 
to a point where there are displays that use the FRBR entities 
explicitly, then we should add those to schema.org. At the moment the 
only usages I am aware of (other than VTLS cataloger view, which is not 
exposed publicly) is the presentation of works in Open Library and 
LibraryThing (and maybe goodreads?) So we could look to those for fields 
that are not yet covered by book, such as "work title". I caution 
against getting ahead of ourselves, however, since we do not at this 
stage know beyond this what "FRBR" displays are since actual FRBR data 
is not being displayed. (And, if BIBFRAME goes forward as planned, may 
be less likely to be built into library bibliographic work.)

Perhaps we need to gather examples of displays that could be coded with 
schema.org. OCLC gives us one set. I could Another set could come from 
the labeled display like LC (from old catalog):

LC control no.: 	96002325
LCCN permalink: 	http://lccn.loc.gov/96002325
Type of material: 	Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)
Personal name: 	Twain, Mark, 1835-1910.
Uniform title: 	Novels. Selections
Main title: 	The complete Tom Sawyer / Mark Twain.
Published/Created: 	New York : Gramercy Books, 1996.
Description: 	ix, 294 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.
ISBN: 	0517150786
Contents: 	The adventures of Tom Sawyer -- Tom Sawyer abroad -- Tom 
Sawyer, detective.
Subjects: 	Sawyer, Tom (Fictitious character) --Fiction.
	Finn, Huckleberry (Fictitious character) --Fiction.
	Adventure stories, American.
	Humorous stories, American.
LC classification: 	PS1302 1996b
Dewey class no.: 	813/.4

As well as Amazon (which you can look up), and including a variety of 
citation formats:

Twain, Mark, John C. Gerber, and Paul Baender. 1982. The adventures of 
Tom Sawyer. Berkeley: University of California Press.

In fact, it now occurs to me that the examples that I gave of 
commonEndeavor may need to be re-thought in terms of display. Here's a 
display example from the schema.org Book documentation page:

<span itemprop="name">The Catcher in the Rye</span> -
  <link itemprop="bookFormat" href="http://schema.org/Paperback">Mass 
Market Paperback
by <a itemprop="author" href="/author/jd_salinger.html">J.D. Salinger</a>

kc


On 1/8/13 2:21 AM, Gordon Dunsire wrote:
> Jodi
>
> Comments inline …
>
> Cheers
>
> Gordon
>
> *From:*Jodi Schneider [mailto:jodi.schneider@deri.org]
> *Sent:* 07 January 2013 17:25
> *To:* Gordon Dunsire
> *Cc:* public-schemabibex@w3.org
> *Subject:* goals wrt FRBR/RDA (was Re: Works and instances)
>
> On 7 Jan 2013, at 08:08, Gordon Dunsire wrote:
>
>     Does this provide a way forward forschema.org <http://schema.org>to
>     interoperate with FRBR/RDA?
>
> Perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic, but I don't think I'd state this as a
> goal -- at least not directly.
>
> GD: As Richard said “If we cannot demonstrate how you would publish your
> data using [extended] Schema.org, that is currently in
> FRBR/RDA/Marc/ISBD/etc., we will not have completed our mission.”
>
> Rather, I'd ask:
>
> - What qualities of library and bibliographic data are needed for search
> engines to serve endusers?
>
> - How does FRBR/RDA promote these qualities? What qualities of the data
> needs to be preserved?
>
> GD: By “qualities”, do you mean attributes and relationships? I think we
> have to assume that FRBR/RDA promotes those attributes and relationships
> (i.e. provide a semantic model) that serve endusers, given that FRBR is
> focussed on user tasks, and we should give credit to the international
> processes that determined those attributes and relationships. So I would
> say that we know what qualities serve endusers in bibliographic resource
> discovery systems; the question is to what extent search engines support
> them and, most importantly, to what extent “amateur” cataloguers (and,
> indeed, inference engines) can supply the bibliographic data.
>
> To me, going back to use cases would really help. If anybody has time to
> translate the problems/solutions into specifics, with our use cases, I
> think that would bring us forward.
>
> We currently have a number of use cases here:
>
> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Use_Cases
>
> Among them are to describe a FRBR Item and a FRBR Manifestation:
>
> ·1.4Use case: Describe a FRBR Item (e.g. a single identifiable book)
> <http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Use_Cases#Use_case:_Describe_a_FRBR_Item_.28e.g._a_single_identifiable_book.29>
>
> ·1.5Use case: Describe a FRBR Manifestation
> <http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Use_Cases#Use_case:_Describe_a_FRBR_Manifestation>
>
> Another way to ask my question, is if we use isbd:hasExpression and
> isbd:hasItem [1], does that address these problems? If so, then it's a
> way forward.
>
> GD: The two isbd properties exist only in my head at the moment. The
> problem of interoperating data based on FRBR WEMI with data based on
> “dumber”, high-level models based on Resource/CreativeWork is generic
> (with ISBD, Schema, and DCT as the most prominent examples). So it would
> be good to get a general solution.
>
> Gordon, if this sounds dense it's probably because I need more context
> on the ISBD Review Group's work--beyond ISBD identifiers they appear to
> have envisioned FRBR-ER identifiers which are news to me.
>
> The context of the Review Group’s proposed work is interoperability of
> IFLA bibliographic standards, which include ISBD and FRBR/FRAD/FRSAD.
> The Group is also working with JSC/RDA on alignments between ISBD and
> RDA elements and semantic mappings between them, and between ISBD and
> RDA content and carrier designators. More information can be found on
> the IFLA and JSC websites, but let me know if you have further questions J
>
> -Jodi
>
> [1]
>
> isbd:hasExpression rdfs:label "has expression" ;
>
> rdfs:domain isbd:C2001 ;
>
> rdfs:range frbrer:C1002 .
>
> frbrer:C1002 rdfs:label “Expression” .
>
> isbd:hasItem rdfs:label "has item" ;
>
> rdfs:domain isbd:C2001 ;
>
> rdfs:range frbrer:C1004 .
>
> frbrer:C1004 rdfs:label “Item” .
>
> -Jodi
>

-- 
Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet

Received on Tuesday, 8 January 2013 23:19:33 UTC