Re: audiobook options in objects

Why so much concern about schema:additionalType and Microdata as opposed to rdf:type and RDFa? This isn't an issue from the latter POV. The thing is both types.

Jeff

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 9, 2013, at 1:10 PM, "Owen Stephens" <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:

> Thanks.  Will try to adjust proposal and modelling in this direction
> 
> The example you've pointed at uses /Product as an 'additionaltype' which doesn't seem right to me - my inclination would be to propose a creative work can be associated with a product in someway. 
> 
> I see that creativeWork can have an 'offer' associated with it which seems counterintuitive - would be much nicer if this became a link to a product instead? 
> 
> Feel like my thinking is going round in circles :(
> 
> Owen
> 
> 
> On 9 Feb 2013, at 16:05, "Young,Jeff (OR)" <jyoung@oclc.org> wrote:
> 
>> Owen,
>> 
>> I think you're on the right track.
>> 
>> I would argue that schema:CreativeWork should be used to represent "content" and schema:Product be used to represent "carrier". FRBR Manifestation is then an amalgamation of schema:CreativeWork and schema:ProductModel. FRBR Item would be schema:CreativeWork and schema:IndividualProduct. Our notion of "Holding" would be schema:creativeWork and schema:SomeProducts.
>> 
>> I believe that Richard started to mock up an example on the wiki.
>> 
>> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Examples/mylib

>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Feb 9, 2013, at 10:42 AM, "Owen Stephens" <owen@ostephens.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Looking at this again I think what I feel most unhappy with the modelling I've done is:
>>> 
>>> A) It treats something that is 16 CDs as essentially a single thing (says its a cd containing a 22hr CDDA encoded audio object
>>> 
>>> B) It conflates the format (cd) with the creative work. This would make it awkward to code a page which listed the work then multiple access options (audio cd, mp3 on physical media, mp3 for download, ogg vorbis for download etc)
>>> 
>>> If it were just multiple formats for download you could do this adequately using audioObject - but the mix in of physical media stops this.
>>> 
>>> Being able to this kind of listing seems pretty fundamental - whether for a library or a store.
>>> 
>>> It might be that this can be achieved by mixing in a schema.org/product? This would make more sense - the cd set is a product, as is the physical media+mp3, as is the mp3 for download.
>>> 
>>> However not quite sure how to model this right now.
>>> 
>>> Does my concern make sense?
>>> Anyone want to suggest how product would interact here?
>>> 
>>> I think I'm sticking to a pretty straightforward real world scenario here not just dreaming up an abstract concern?
>>> 
>>> Owen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 03:57, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Great, owen. I'll work on proposal 2 since that seems to be the mostly likely one in my set. I'm not clear about repetition of property names in schema.org -- is it legit to have two schemas that both have a property "isbn"? I believe this was discussed either here or on the public-vocab list, and I was left with the impression that the URI pattern is
>>> >
>>> > http://schema.org/[property]
>>> >
>>> > and not
>>> >
>>> > http://schema.org/Book/[property]
>>> > http://schema.org/Audiobook/[property]
>>> >
>>> > Can anyone confirm? Because that would knock out a couple of the options that are currently on the page.
>>> >
>>> > kc
>>> >
>>> > On 2/8/13 3:46 PM, Owen Stephens wrote:
>>> >> OK - I've given markup a go for Proposal 5 - not done this before so likely be errors/misconceptions on my part so anyone should feel free to chip in and improve.
>>> >> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Object_Types#Proposal_5

>>> >> Owen
>>> >>
>>> >> Owen Stephens
>>> >> Owen Stephens Consulting
>>> >> Web: http://www.ostephens.com

>>> >> Email: owen@ostephens.com
>>> >> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>>> >>
>>> >> On 8 Feb 2013, at 18:01, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@KCOYLE.NET> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> So many choices! :-) Should the next step be to try to encode a few items and see how it works?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Also, the creativeWork "encoding" is *supposed* to be of type MediaObject. Does that make a difference?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> kc
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 2/8/13 7:46 AM, Owen Stephens wrote:
>>> >>>> Hi Karen,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I'm inclined to ignore that definition of Media Object :) There is no reason why an Audio-book shouldn't be embedded in a webpage so I wouldn't want to exclude this either)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I think you could make use of the Creative Work property "encoding" rather than making it a type of Media Object - which allows some split of content and carrier? (not wishing to resurrect that discussion!)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> This would allow:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Proposal
>>> >>>> Thing > CreativeWork > Audiobook
>>> >>>> Thing > CreativeWork > Book > Audiobook
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> New properties for audiobook type
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>    • readBy -- expected type: Person
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Properties likely to be used from Book
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>    • bookEdition (for abridgement note)
>>> >>>>    • isbn
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> With a separate Media Object to be created and referenced using 'encoding' property from CreativeWork?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I've added as Proposal 4
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Owen
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Owen Stephens
>>> >>>> Owen Stephens Consulting
>>> >>>> Web: http://www.ostephens.com

>>> >>>> Email: owen@ostephens.com
>>> >>>> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 8 Feb 2013, at 15:23, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> I wrote up three options for audiobook:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Object_Types#AudioBook

>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> A key question here is whether we can re-use MediaObject, since it is defined as being media embedded in a web page.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> kc
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> Karen Coyle
>>> >>>>> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net

>>> >>>>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>>> >>>>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>>> >>>>> skype: kcoylenet
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Karen Coyle
>>> >>> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net

>>> >>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>>> >>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>>> >>> skype: kcoylenet
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Karen Coyle
>>> > kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net

>>> > ph: 1-510-540-7596
>>> > m: 1-510-435-8234
>>> > skype: kcoylenet
>>> >
>>> 
>>>