Re: tracking state changes in a temporal read-write web

On Fri, 21 May 2021 at 15:27, Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Melvin - thankful for your illuminated capacity to consolidate complex
> stuff into procedually useful derivatives...  therein +1 generally...
>
> i guess, my comments are moreover in consideration of multi-modal support
> for intepretative frameworks / fabric...
> (linked to deliberations about human factors)
>
> therein - as a thought experiment - conditioned behavioural responses are
> developed through iterative use, much like pathways or tracks found in
> forests...  repetitive use, creates better (and safer) tracks.  people who
> 'cut the tracks' into the forest the first time; are most likely to have
> problems (ie: getting bitten by snakes / wildlife, etc.); yet equally
> (referring to social factors) - using advanced machinary creates a
> different effect than people walking the tracks.  an 'engineering team' can
> go through, with machinary, and deploy a “bitumen road”, that's different
> to a walking track made by the feet of fauna (mankind included, but also
> elephants, etc.).
>
> herein - i'm replying to a thread that has abbrivated constituencies of a
> note: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rww/2021May/0137.html
> that's presently 'out of band' (kinda) unless its linked somehow; so, its
> not simply a deterministically linear intepretative model.  There's compute
> costs / prioritisation; whether that be cycles / energy for some types
> agents; or how that applies (differently) for other (natural) agents; which
> in-turn, becomes more complex.
>
> i'm also now thinking about attack vectors; such as, increasing difficulty
> via various techniques as a means to estrange agents from agency.  some may
> link to the use of 'discovery' methods, that could deliver enormous
> payloads (a think this sort of thing is used as a legal tactic in cases;
> when seeking discovery, they provide so much documentation - it would take
> years to get through it all); which kinda wraps back to a syntatic means to
> address energy efficiency?  IDK.  but FWIW - FYI...
>

hrm, you're darting around a bit.  Id suggest focusing on one thing at a
time.  Aside: Longer more complex topics may be well suited to being shared
as a link to a document/blog where various links are collected, with
commentary added -- this seems to be something you're quite good at

Regarding attack vectors, yes that will be an ongoing evolution, much as
the web always has.  Large payloads, I'll add DDoS too would be
particularly something to watch out for.  But it's something that's
inherent to the whole RWW so we can tackle it when we come to it.  I'll
note that modern block chains were specifically designed as a way to
auction space, and prevent such high pay loads.  The agents we're talking
about would not necessarily inherit that feature.


>
> On Fri, 21 May 2021 at 22:43, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 21 May 2021 at 13:58, Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Melvin Carvalho (2021-05-21 13:34:52)
>>> > this is the outline of a strategy to track state changes in a temporal
>>> > read-write web
>>> >
>>> > by no means the only strategy, but an aim to generalize some of the
>>> > recent discussions
>>>
>>> Sorry, but I don't follow: What do you generalize and what is specific?
>>>
>>
>> General outline, to tie something that evolves (over time) on the
>> read-write web, to an external timestamp server, which is designed to order
>> blocks of data in time
>>
>
> Server or service (or syndicate?):  there's a few different ways to
> achieve an effective solution for temporal synthatic (maybe not a word, but
> intended to mean something like - synthetic - methods involving many
> parts)  tamper-evidence...  or resiliance...
>
> There could be many different ways this is achieved (and translated, ie:
> 13 months)...
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Specific would be an example strategy to do this using hashes to track
>> state on the web side, and on a block chain side
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Seems you generalize over *which* blockchain but talk specifically about
>>> blockchain-driven RWW.
>>>
>>
>> So, it should be blockchain agnostic, to rely on a number of block chains
>> ordered in time, which allow two way links
>>
>> The RWW data should also be quite general.  So no specific use case, but
>> rather, something that can be hashed.  So that would be any document, any
>> quad store, any file system, any git tree for example
>>
>
> 'Time' has multiple fields, when associated to behaviour and sociology
> (also linked to 'knowledge' semantics)
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Do I understand that correctly, or what is otherwise general about it?
>>>
>>
>> You probably have understood correctly, given I was not terribly clear in
>> my outline.  More a starting point that can be refined into spec, and an
>> implementation.
>>
>> It's definitely not a general solution to all temporal based read-write
>> web problems, for example in our discussions there were good points made
>> about local timestamping and global timestamping, I touched only on global,
>> and not local.  In that sense it was specific.
>>
>> Aiming to outline one solution that can be part of the puzzle...
>>
>
> interpretation of puzzles?
>
> TCH.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  - Jonas
>>>
>>> --
>>>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>>>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>>>
>>>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>>
>>