- From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 12:48:08 +0200
- To: Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
- Cc: Read-Write-Web <public-rww@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKaEYhJnp9GB1oC2SLhgcmn=wpZQsUA928HiVzK6ftUU7BgsqQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 10:33, Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com> wrote: > first one i tried to make (2000-2), i called it a 'network based operating > system' or basedrive network operating system - > http://webcivics.org/Basedrive.html > > Consciousness 'status of the observer', its all kinda temporal... but > societies have employed the notion of 'common sense' to curate 'courts of > law' for a very long time. > > For now, keeping my reply short; few links, > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYPjXz1MVv0&list=PLCbmz0VSZ_voTpRK9-o5RksERak4kOL40&index=4&t=1s > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYPjXz1MVv0&list=PLCbmz0VSZ_voTpRK9-o5RksERak4kOL40&index=4&t=1s> > > > https://medium.com/webcivics/theoretical-relationship-between-social-informatics-systems-and-quantum-physics-reality-check-6ce3781d1a29 > > https://medium.com/webcivics/the-semantic-inforg-the-human-centric-web-reality-check-tech-50e2fa124ed4 > > in anycase; i think this discovery process is going well. lots to plug > together into an insights document thing > (probably try to do so next week? i assume, more will develop that can be > packaged into any such form of milestone thing). > A typical path is user stories, functional requirements, specs, apps -- not necessarily in that order -- but user stories help focus the mind > > Timothy Holborn > > > On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 17:55, Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote: > >> >> >> > On 19. May 2021, at 07:36, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > [snip] >> > >> >> >> >> Hi Timothy, >> >> >> >> FWIW -- A Read-Write Web is simply an Entity Relationship Graph (Graph >> for short), constructed from hyperlinks, that supports Create, Update, and >> Delete operations -- in one form or another. >> >> >> >> Fundamentally, you can add, alter, and remove parts from said graph. >> >> >> >> Web 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0 themed technologies have offered the above in >> various forms with associated consequences re: >> >> >> >> 1. Interaction Flexibility & Inflexibility via Application or Service >> Experience >> >> >> >> 2. User Privacy >> >> >> >> 3. Society at large . >> >> >> >> Personally, I don't fixate on perfect definitions or "one size fits >> all" world views. I prefer to simply get stuff done by implementing >> relevant open standards are various Super Set oriented entry points (* >> which may not always be obvious initially *). >> >> >> >> In conclusion: >> >> >> >> Let's crack on with getting stuff done since we have all the open >> standards and specs in place. Basically, write stuff, share it with others >> to test interop. >> >> +1000 to learning by practice. >> These sometimes though do lead people to stumble on philosophical or >> mathematical problems >> >> > >> > The more the do that the better for item #3 which I know you care a lot >> about :) >> > >> > >> > So I think you could view the web as a giant state machine. And >> writing to the web is changing that state machine >> >> So here you have to be very careful. It may be a lot more correct to >> state that the web is an open ended set >> of state machines in communication with one another. This moves you to >> the actor model of computation. >> Carl Hewitt who developed that model wrote up a very readable history >> which I link to from here >> https://twitter.com/bblfish/status/1358103100104572930 >> >> > So the potential of a read write web is to create a web scale operating >> system, which is something we've not yet seen >> >> Operating Systems tend to be thought of as systems to control 1 machine - >> a computer, phone, watch, etc… >> When dealing with many machines I think it is therefore better to think >> not of an operating system but >> instead of co-operating systems. >> >> > I may be wrong here, but I think that all operating systems rely on a >> clock >> > >> > Now imagine if the clock was internal to any one process (think >> server), that would not make sense for an operating system >> >> >> You can indeed also have synchronized clocks. >> The If-Modified-Since and If-Unmodified-Since http headers rely on that. >> >> >> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/If-Modified-Since >> >> > >> > An external clock that you can hook into brings us one step closer to >> an read write, standards based, operating system for the web. This could >> be done both with server side apps, which now become just agents, and also >> with client side apps, you could imagine a user interface changing >> dynamically over time, perhaps evn democratically. Lots of nice >> side-effects drop out of this >> > >> > It goes without saying that all of these changes should be 100% >> backwards compatible with what exists, so that it augments, rather than >> replaces >> >> Synchronised clocks are an indeed important part in all read-write web >> protocols for HTTP from WebDav, Atom to LDP. >> So that is already how the RWW works. >> >> The danger of thinking in terms of Operating Systems is that it leads you >> to the dreams of global consensus. >> But as we see with bitcoin, the selection of the next state of the >> bitcoin state machine, is extremely >> costly in energy. As a result over 50% of bitcoin mining is now going on >> in China, and is very far from >> the decentralised dream people had 10 years ago. >> >> Furthermore not every application lends itself well to such a state >> machine, It can work for purely >> mathematically based systems like currencies where the whole state can be >> verified by everyone, but >> it gets a lot more complicated for empirical statements, where semantics >> becomes important. I wrote >> some thoughts on that up here: >> >> https://medium.com/cybersoton/identity-as-a-graph-or-a-chain-f15940beec81 >> >> The blockchain is distributed but not decentralised: it requires one view >> of the truth. >> >> In democracies we need to take into account the multi-perspectival nature >> of reality. >> There may be one truth - as an ideal - but that can only be attained by >> discussions among >> incompatible, often contradictory views of reality. That is why a >> multi-agent system >> is the right place to start thinking about these things. Local consensus >> first, global consensus >> later, perhaps and only if needed. >> >> >> >> Henry Story >> >> https://co-operating.systems >> WhatsApp, Signal, Tel: +33 6 38 32 69 84 >> Twitter: @bblfish >> >>
Received on Wednesday, 19 May 2021 10:48:38 UTC