Rule Interchange Format Working Group Teleconference -- 15 Apr 2008

<trackbot-ng> Date: 15 April 2008

<Harold> Hi

<csma> Meeting: RIF telecon April 15

<csma> Adrian, can you scribe, please?

<csma> topic #rif 15 April RIF agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0058.html

<csma> Scribe: Adrian Paschke

<csma> scribenick: AdiranP

<csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/att-0033/08-rif-minutes.html

Administration

<csma> PROPOSED: accept minutes of April 8 telecon

<csma> RESOLVED: accept minutes of April 8 telecno

<csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0066.html

<AdrianP> Additional issues from Jos

F2F10

<AdrianP> Axel: No news. Any questions?

<AdrianP> csma: registration questionair?

<AxelPolleres> Including a question for food preferences would be good.

<ChrisW> ACTION: Sandro to open F2F10 questionaire by April 22 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/15-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-464 - Open F2F10 questionaire by April 22 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-04-22].

<AxelPolleres> (vegi/non-vegi)

<AxelPolleres> Including a question for who wants to join a social dinner would be good.

Liaison

<AdrianP> Sandro: new working drafts on OWL2

<AdrianP> Sandro: name changed from OWL 1.1 to OWL2

<AdrianP> Sandro: three new working drafts

<AdrianP> csma: any impact on RIF

<AdrianP> Sandro: no, but there is a rule oriented profile

<Hassan> What is a profile?

<AdrianP> Sandor: called OWL-R

<ChrisW> OWL profile == RIF dialect

<AdrianP> csma: are they aware of our RIF work

<AdrianP> Sandro: yes

<sandro> not RIF dialect .... "OWL-R" profile is a OWL Fuill subset suitable for implementing with Rule systems.

<Hassan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-owl2-profiles-20080411/

Publication of FLD

<AdrianP> csma: four reviews of FLD

<AdrianP> Chris: Linked reviews from web page; four reviews

<ChrisW> FLD Reviews:

<ChrisW> from Leora: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0069.html

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group see "Latest Internal Reviews"

<ChrisW> From csma: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0069.html

<AdrianP> Igor: FLD is ready tro be published

<sandro> Igor: FLD is ready to be published. Very well written.

<ChrisW> From Igor: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0069.html

<StellaMitchell> +1 to Irog

<StellaMitchell> Igor

<ChrisW> Stella: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0054.html

<AdrianP> csma: Leora also said it is ready to be published

<AdrianP> csma: I wanted a few clarifications

<AdrianP> michael: send an eMail to the list

<AdrianP> csma: How do we handle meta data in this WD?

<LeoraMorgenstern> I am not on the phone, because I am on a work call I can't get out of, but I agree that FLD is quite good.

<LeoraMorgenstern> I do think that there are some changes which would improve it, but certainly it can be published as a working draft.

<AdrianP> csma: meta data in EBNF of FLD and BLD?

<AdrianP> sandro: sent eMail about this to the list

<AdrianP> csma: for each issue we should have an editor note

<AdrianP> csma: question of semantic meta data is open

<sandro> sandro: I suggest that for each open issue, put an editor's note in that place in the document (if there is one), mentioning the issue.

<AdrianP> csma: what should be marked as an open issue, e.g. XML naming, syntax and semantics for meta data

<sandro> "Editor's Note: The design of _______ in this document is currently under discussion by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-nnn"

<josb> +q

<AdrianP> Chris: We need an editor's note in FLD

<AdrianP> Jos: Additional open issue: rule identification

<AdrianP> csma: is it not part of the meta data question?

<sandro> jos: "rule identification" not really the same as metadata.

<AdrianP> Jos: worth to mention explicitly

<AdrianP> Jos: there should be an editor's note about syntax and rule identification

<AdrianP> michael: currently rule identification is part of meta data

<AdrianP> Jos: currently you can not identify single rules

<AdrianP> Jos: syntactic issues: meta data and rule identifier

<sandro> "Editor's Note: The metadata syntax and the way approach to rule identification presented in this draft are currently under discussion by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-nnn"

<AdrianP> Chris: IRI syntax is still under discussion

<sandro> "Editor's Note: The metadata syntax and the approach to rule identification presented in this draft are currently under discussion by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-nnn"

<AdrianP> michael: there is a way to identify a single rule

<AdrianP> csma: by wrapping them in a rule set

<AdrianP> Chris: open issue on rule identification

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=The names of XML elements are being discussed by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-49}}

<AdrianP> csma: other editor's note for FLD?

<AdrianP> csma: other corrections that needs to be done?

<AdrianP> Hassan: Concerning XML names, still XML element structure needs to be discussed

<AdrianP> csma: XML syntax should be marked as under discussion

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=The metadata syntax and the approach to rule identification presented in this draft are currently under discussion by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-51}}

<AdrianP> Harold: structure was decided

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=The XML syntax, an especially the element tags, are being discussed by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-49}}

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=The XML syntax, and especially the element tags, are being discussed by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-49}}

<AdrianP> csma: decision about frames and slots was that we use it for working draft 2

<AdrianP> Hasan: we should leave it open

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=The XML syntax, including the element tags, is being discussed by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-49}}

<josb> horrendous, indeed!

<AdrianP> Chris: so we nee to new editor's notes

<AdrianP> csma: csma: additions , modifications to FLD ?

<AdrianP> michael: syntax of FLD and BLD need to be closely related

<AdrianP> Chris: editor's note go in both documents

<AdrianP> csma: in FLD there is no concrete syntax

<AdrianP> michael: BNF needs to be fixed

<AdrianP> Hassan: final EBNF needs to be further developed and be more compact

<Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD#Translation_Between_the_RIF-FLD_Presentation_and_XML_Syntaxes

<Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Translation_Between_the_RIF-BLD_Presentation_and_XML_Syntaxes

<AdrianP> Hassan: translation between presentation syntax to concrete XML syntax needs to be more detailed and worked on

<AdrianP> csma: They do not contain all information you nedd?

<AdrianP> Hassan: For BLD these mapping rules need to be expanded. That should be added as editor's note

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=This XML syntax translation table is expected to be made more formal in future versions of this draft.}} <--- what Hassan wants, I think.

<Hassan> Yes Sandro - thanks... :-)

<csma> Editor's Note: the names of the XML elements in this serialization

<csma> are still subject to change. See Working Group Issue-49.

<sandro> csma: (what I just posted was an error)

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=This XML syntax translation table is expected to be made more formal in future versions of this draft.}}

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=The XML syntax, including the element tags, is being discussed by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-49}}

<sandro> {{EdNote|text=The metadata syntax and the approach to rule identification presented in this draft are currently under discussion by the Working Group. Input is welcome. See Issue-51}}

<AdrianP> csma: FLD should be published if the three editor's notes are added

<sandro> PROPOSED: That FLD be published as a FWPD with those (above) three Editor's Notes, along with a BNF fix in "External" that MK is talking about now.

<AdrianP> michael: EBNF needs to be fixed, problem with External

<AdrianP> sandro: can it be fixed by noon?

<AdrianP> Harold: EBNF is only a superset and does not contain all features

<AdrianP> michael: we can add another editor's note that EBNF needs to be fixed

<AdrianP> csma: it is a working draft

<Hassan> name dropping? ... ;-)

<sandro> Sandro: let's not warn people away from the BNF....

<sandro> PROPOSED: That FLD be published as a FWPD with those (above) three Editor's Notes.

<sandro> PROPOSED: That FLD be published as a FPWD with those (above) three Editor's Notes.

<sandro> +1 (W3C)

<josb> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1

<Hassan> +1 ILOG

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<AdrianP> +1 (REWERSE)

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

<AxelPolleres> +1 (DERI)

<MichaelKifer> +1 (myself)

<mdean> +1

<LeoraMorgenstern> +1

<mdean> +1 (SRI)

<LeoraMorgenstern> +1 (IBM)

<GaryHallmark> +1 oracle

<Hassan> BRAVO!!!

<sandro> RESOLVED: That FLD be published as a FPWD with those (above) three Editor's Notes.

BLD Publication

<AdrianP> csma: three reviews on BLD

<ChrisW> BLD review from csma: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0068.html

<StellaMitchell> my comments were minor, +1 publish

<ChrisW> BLD review from Axel: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0050.html

<AdrianP> Axel: I'm fine with the responses from Harold

<ChrisW> BLD review from Stella: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0044.html

<AdrianP> csma: question about equality and external terms

<Harold> Christian, it's allowed: TERM ::= Const | Var | Expr | 'External' '(' Expr ')'

<StellaMitchell> and, nice job on the BLD

<AxelPolleres> I think it is allowed to have nested externals...

<AdrianP> csma: why can we not have a equality between two external terms?

<AxelPolleres> ... I checked that back.

<AdrianP> Harold: it is possible to have equality between two external terms

<sandro> PROPOSED: That BLD be published as a WD with those (above) three Editor's Notes (same as on FLD).

<Harold> Equality terms. If t and s are simple, positional, or named-argument terms then t = s is an equality term.

<AdrianP> csma: we need to check, but let's go ahead with the publication

<Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Terms

<AdrianP> csma: editor's note specific to BLD?

<sandro> PROPOSED: That BLD be published as a WD with those (above) three Editor's Notes (same as on FLD).

<AxelPolleres> have to go in 5min. I could say some words about the status of DTB... or shall we postpone that to next time?

<AxelPolleres> +1 (DERI) to publish BLD

<sandro> +1 (W3C)

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<AdrianP> +1 (REWERSE)

<mdean> +1 (SRI)

<LeoraMorgenstern> +1 (IBM)

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

<MichaelKifer> +1 (myself)

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<sandro> RESOLVED: That BLD be published as a WD with those (above) three Editor's Notes (same as on FLD).

<Hassan> BRING OUT THE BUBBLES !!!

<sandro> thanks Harold and Michael ?

<AdrianP> Harold: Will do the changes in BLD

<AdrianP> michael: I already did for FLD

<AdrianP> csma: please do by 1pm today

SWC publication

<AdrianP> Mike: document is fine; feedback ok

<AdrianP> Mike: publish as is

<AdrianP> csma: any remarks, comments?

<AdrianP> Jos: WD should have an appendix about changes wrt previous versions

<sandro> PROPOSED: Publish rif-rdf-owl (aka SWC) as WD.

<AxelPolleres> +1 (DERI)

<sandro> +1 (W3C)

<josb> +1 (FUB)

<Hassan> +1 (ILOG)

<mdean> +1 (SRI)

<IgorMozetic> +1 (JSI)

<MichaelKifer> +1 (myself)

<AdrianP> +1 (REWERSE)

<Harold> +1 (NRC)

<LeoraMorgenstern> +1 (IBM)

<GaryHallmark> +1 Oracle

<sandro> RESOLVED: Publish rif-rdf-owl (aka SWC) as WD.

<sandro> Bravo, Jos!

<Hassan> WOW!!!

<MichaelKifer> I have put all 3 ednotes in the FLD wiki

<AdrianP> Sandro: publication date is today

Action review

<AdrianP> Action 463 dropped

<AdrianP> action 462 done

<AdrianP> action 461 done

<AdrianP> michael: action 461 not done

<AdrianP> action 461 dropped

<AdrianP> action 460 due next week

<AdrianP> action 459 pending discussion

<AdrianP> action 452 by May 13th

<AdrianP> action 449 done

<AdrianP> action 447 done

<AdrianP> action 435 pending discussion

<AdrianP> action 434 continued

<AdrianP> action 433 and 430 done

<AdrianP> action 428 continued

<Harold> I added the three above EdNotes to BLD: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/index.php?title=BLD&diff=1234&oldid=1216

<csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ToDo_before_BLD_last_call

<josb> I just added them

<csma> PROPOSED: Close issue 14. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document

<csma> RESOLVED: Close issue 14. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document

<ChrisW> ACTION: Chris to close issue 14. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/15-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-465 - Close issue 14. [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-04-22].

<csma> PROPOSED: Close issue 15. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Close this issue. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-15. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-15. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-24. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document. At the time the issue was opened, Core was BLD.

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-24. It is addressed in the RDF+OWL document. At the time the issue was opened, Core was BLD.

<ChrisW> ACTION: Chris to close issue-15 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/15-rif-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-466 - Close issue-15 [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-04-22].

<ChrisW> ACTION: Chris to close issue-24 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/15-rif-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-467 - Close issue-24 [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-04-22].

<AdrianP> Jos: selecting of semantics needs to be resolved

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-16, it is addressed in FLD and BLD

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-16, it is addressed (as far as Phase 1) in FLD and BLD through the external call mechanism

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-16, it is addressed (as far as Phase 1) in FLD and BLD through the external call mechanism

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Remove ISSUE-33 from critical path

<AdrianP> Jos: We should keep it open and discuss how we refer to RDF graphs

<AdrianP> Jos: -1

<AdrianP> RIF should support uncertain and probabilistic information (ISSUE-17)

<AdrianP> PROPOSED: Postpone this issue

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Postpone ISSUE-17. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<AdrianP> PROPOSED: Postpone ISSUE-17-20.

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Postpone ISSUE-17. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Postpone ISSUE-17. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<AdrianP> Adrian: No

<AdrianP> Adrian: not in UCR

<AdrianP> Hassan: Do we have a use case for probabilistic use case?

<AdrianP> Hassan: We need a use case in UCR

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Postpone ISSUE-18. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Postpone ISSUE-19. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Postpone ISSUE-19. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Postpone ISSUE-20. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<AdrianP> Hassan: What is ORM fact model population?

<josb> set of facts

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Postpone ISSUE-20. It is not covered by Phase I of RIF.

<Harold> Object Role Modeling (ORM): http://www.essentialstrategies.com/publications/modeling/orm.htm

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: CLOSE ISSUE-21 - unclear what it means and most likely subsumed by ISSUE-38

<AdrianP> Igor: What does it mean?

<AdrianP> csma: John Hall brought it up

<ChrisW> ^Igor^Hassan

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: CLOSE ISSUE-21 - unclear what it means and most likely subsumed by ISSUE-38

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Remove issue-26 from CP.

<AdrianP> Hassan: If we can not interchange between different rule engines

<AdrianP> csma: question is if we want to discuss it before BLD

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Remove issue-26 from CP.

<ChrisW> ACTION: Chris to updated issues lists to reflect resolutions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/15-rif-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-468 - Updated issues lists to reflect resolutions [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-04-22].

<Hassan> +1 to adjourn

<IgorMozetic> +1

<AdrianP> bye

- DRAFT -

Rule Interchange Format Working Group Teleconference

15 Apr 2008

Attendees

Contents

Administration

F2F10

Liaison

Publication of FLD

BLD Publication

SWC publication

Action review

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output