- From: Michael Sintek <sintek@dfki.uni-kl.de>
- Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:21:21 +0100 (MET)
- To: Hassan Aït-Kaci <hak@ilog.com>
- CC: Gerd Wagner <wagnerg@tu-cottbus.de>, 'Michael Kifer' <kifer@cs.sunysb.edu>, 'Sandro Hawke' <sandro@w3.org>, public-rif-wg@w3.org, sintek@dfki.uni-kl.de
Hassan Aït-Kaci wrote:
>
> I agree 100% with Gerd's point - and Sandro. RIF is not about concrete
> syntax, it is about abstract syntax (Please refer to POINT C in ACTION-87
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Oct/0083.html.
> We need to define classes and attributes, and API- that sort of things
> - not any particular surface syntax. Isn't this the *very need* for
> a RIF? Viz., *interchange* of *disparate concrete surface syntaxes*
> through a *common AST format* called ... the *Rule Interchange Format*,
> a.k.a. RIF! :-)
>
> I also agree (again) with Franck McCabe. As I wrote in the above
> cited reference:
>
>> I personally think that the RIF should not be a J.A.R.L. and this
>> for the follwing reasons:
>>
>> 1. The RIF, being an Rule *Interchange* Format purporting to support
>> interoperability among rule languages, is a formalism for
>> expressing all the essential concepts making up rules and rulesets
>> that need to be represented. As I tried to explain in my original
>> quote from Peter Landin's "The Next 700 Programming Languages"
>> (and as Frank McCabe recently reminded us), the RIF is a language
>> space in which specific (rule) languages are to be mapped.
>>
>> 2. Such mappings are typically realized by parsing some RL's specific
>> *concrete* surface syntax into an *abstract* syntax representation
>> using elements of a RIF ontology. Such an abstract syntax is the
>> closest one may speak of "syntax" when sepaking of the RIF. Indeed,
>> by *RIF syntax* one should not mean human-readable syntax, but
>> some representation thereof based on a consensual vocabulary.
>>
>> Importantly, such an abstract syntax, contrary to usual concrete
>> syntax,
>>
>> (a) is non-linear (i.e., it is tree- or graph-based);
>>
>> (b) is not human-readable (i.e., it will be XML-based);
>>
>> (c) has well-defined semantics allowing one or several
>> operational interpretation;
>>
>> (d) must be consensual (unlike concrete syntaxes that
>> can me mapped into a RIF-compliant AST).
>
> My 2 cents,
Hi,
wouldn't most of these arguments for an abstract syntax
be fulfilled by some RDF-based schema language? Ok, RDFS (contrary to
its name) and OWL are not useful as (OO) schema languages, but such
a language can easily be derived from them by using their primitives
in a different namespace and defining the semantics simply to be
that of a OO schema language.
Sandro's example would thus look like this (in N3),
using "sl" for the schema language:
rif:Condit a sl:Class .
rif:Litform sl:subClassOf rif:Condit .
rif:Atom sl:subClassOf rif:Litform .
rif:rel sl:domain rif:Atom ;
sl:range rif:Identifier ;
sl:cardinality 1 .
rif:Quantif sl:subClassOf rif:Condit .
rif:? sl:domain rif:Quantif ;
sl:range rif:Var ;
sl:minCardinality 1 .
...
As a side effect, we would automatically have a concrete
RDF-based syntax for rules. Other concrete syntaxes (like
an XML-based one) could be automatically generated from the schema
(which would have to be annotated for this to indicate
the concrete element names, ordering etc.).
Michael
>
> -hak
>
> Gerd Wagner wrote:
>
>>> I think what you are trying to define is an ontology for rule parts
>>> (or maybe a UML-like diagram). This is fine and useful, but I don't
>>> think it is a substitute for a concise BNF.
>>
>>
>> Sandro is right with observing the insufficiency of EBNF as compared
>> to MOF/UML, which is a bit more abstract (e.g. in its way not to imply
>> any order of expression components)
>> and more expressive, e.g., by clearly distinguishing between
>> references and components and by allowing to attach contraints to
>> syntax elements, while at the same time
>> providing more readable syntax definitions.
>>
>> As OWL 1.1 is following R2ML (www.rewerse.net/i1) in using MOF/UML for
>> the abstract syntax definition (although, probably since they are
>> still a bit unexperienced, they are making a few mistakes such as
>> using the white diamond
>> instead of the black diamond for composition, or not
>> suppressing the visbility symbols), RIF should also follow
>> this move and make both a MOF language model and an EBNF
>> grammar, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with developing some
>> other (non-standard) method.
>>
>> In the REWERSE project, several working groups (not just I1)
>> have choosen MOF/UML as the abstract syntax definition
>> language that can be complemented with EBNF.
>>
>> -Gerd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Michael Sintek -- DFKI GmbH, Kaiserslautern
http://www.michael-sintek.de -- sintek@dfki.uni-kl.de
phone: +49 631 205-3460 -- fax: +49 631 205-4910
Received on Monday, 13 November 2006 19:28:06 UTC