[RIF] Draft minutes for August 8 2006 meeting

Hello RIF colleagues,
Below, please find draft 4 of August 8th RIF meeting minutes. The only change I made is fixing the links in the table of the contents. Thanks to Sandro for catching it!
Thanks,
      -- Said


- DRAFT 4 -
RIF WG Teleconference
08 Aug 2006
See also: IRC log
Attendees
Present 
Hassan_Ait-Kaci, FrankMcCabe, Philippe_Bonnard, SaidTabet, Harold, ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols, Leora_Morgenstern, Sandro, PFPS, David_Hirtle, Elisa_Kendall, igor, Allen_Ginsberg, MarkusK, Donald_Chapin, Jeff_Pan, Mike_Dean, Gary_Hallmark, Mala_Mehrotra 
Regrets 
        PaulaLaviniaPatranjan, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer, JosDeBruijn, MohamedZergaoui (Extreme XML), MichaelSintek 
Chair 
Chris Wealty 
Scribe 
SaidTabet
Contents
Topics 
Summary of Action Items



Administration
First issue to decide: Hold or Cancel next week's meeting?
<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/2006-08-15_Meeting
8 people posted regrets to the meeting wiki page
<Harold> Given how few we are even today...
Anyone on the call who does not expect to be on the call and did not post regrets?
Sandro: Will happily not be there but I can if I need to :-)
<Harold> People do not even have time to enter themselves in the Regrets page.
<DavidHirtle> let's make Sandro happy...
<FrankMcCabe> no objection
Objections to canceling next week's?
<igor> no objection
No objections
<sandro> RESOLVED: no meeting next week
<ChrisW> Next week's telecon canceled
<ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0002.html
2 weeks ago minutes: any objections to accepting the minutes?
No objections, minutes accepted
<ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0003.html
Last week's minutes: any objections to accepting those?
Sandro: there a formatting problem in the table of contents
<Deborah_Nichols>: I will take care of the format
Sandro: plain text is fine
<ChrisW> ACTION: deborahN to clean up html links in Aug 1 minutes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-rif-minutes.html#action01]
<ChrisW>: Any Amendments to the agenda?
<ChrisW>: Sandro: you have an action to change Frank's email address?
<Sandro>: We are all set, just need to do a little administrative work
<ChrisW>: CSMA: still outstanding action on F2F3 minutes



Liaisons
<ChrisW>: news from liaisons?
... Elisa any news on ODM?
no news on ODM
<Elisa> One small item- we will be chartering our finalization task force for the ODM at the Anaheim meeting in September,
<Elisa> so anyone who wants to participate should let me know.
<Donald_Chapin>: TC 37 handles terminology (SBVR is based on it). Donald will post a link
<Elisa>: ODM is in the process of having a recommendation vote taken. Likely we will be chartering finalization task force at Anaheim meeting.
... Anyone who wants to help, please touch base
<Donald_Chapin> ISO Technical Committee (TC37) for Terminology Standards (http://www.iso.org/iso/en/stdsdevelopment/tc/tclist/TechnicalCommitteeDetailPage.TechnicalCommitteeDetail?COMMID=1459) (http://www.iso.org/tc37) -- New two way active liaison with the OMG



Use Cases and Requirements
<ChrisW>: tracking of requirements moved to issues tracker (outcome from F2F3 meeting)
discussion: along the lines of starting a wiki page...but this didn't make sense since we have a mechanism for tracking
<Sandro>: what happened, at the telecon we decided to use a wiki, then CSMA and Sandro decided to use the available mechanism
... subjects put on tracker are based on high level items
<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Document_issues
<ChrisW>: David Hirtle: there is a wiki page called document_issues (posted above)
<Deborah_Nichols>: that's what I have as a reference to work from
<ChrisW> ACTION: deborahN to move wiki page issues to tracker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-rif-minutes.html#action02]
<ChrisW>: reviewing remaining action items
<David_Hirtle>: IE browser issue (also off in Firefox)....issue continued
<ChrisW> Donald: ACTION: clarify with CSMA UCR working draft issue
<Donald_Chapin> When he comes back - continued
<ChrisW>: anything else to discuss on use cases and requirements?
no



RIFRAF
ChrisW: moving on to RIFRAF
<MarkusK> yes
<MarkusK> ...it has been written...
<MarkusK> yes
Frank: action continued
<ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html
<ChrisW>: main thing to discuss: Paula's proposed discriminators (message posted above)
Describing Event Condition Action rules (ECA)
accept this set of discriminators as requirements for RIF? Phase 1?
no problem accepting them for RIFRAF....not for RIF (esp. Phase 1)
any comments, questions?
ChrisW: Frank you are all right with this?
<Donald_Chapin>: small concern: quite a number of things moved from req to RIFRAF...concerned about things getting lost during he process
<FrankMcCabe> sorry I got dropped off.
<ChrisW>: RIFRAF as a formal way to define all variations in rule systems
<Sandro>: Donald's point: 2 parts for moving req to RIFRAF: first become discriminators and then use survey to validate that. We have not yet gathered the data for that decision
<ChrisW>: Frank are you ok?
... anyone else?
<Hassan>: these discriminators make sense. They are just as good as what is right now in the questionnaire for the other rules. Focus on event handling more specifically than actions. They re good in my view
<Gary>: I endorsed them last week and I still like them
<ChrisW>: propose to accept these discriminators for RIFFRAFF. Any objections?
... no objections.
... would like to discuss next steps: status of these set of discriminators
... quite a bit orthogonal to RIF. Shall we consider them for phase 1?
... or is this phase 2?
<Hassan>: Before that, perhaps filling a questionnaire for a few languages will give us a better idea.
... in ILOG's rule language (IRL), we have event handling called 'chronicles'. I subscribe to this as a representative of ILOG but this is not the main representative compared to the 'CA' part of 'ECA' rules, 'CA' rules are a higher priority
<Gary>: agrees with Hassan's comment.
<Chris>: where do you stand with having requirements for phase 1 or accept this as phase 2?
<Gary>: would like to see some of this as phase 1
<Chris>: for now, phase 1 is Horn. Do you feel that we need more than what is there with respect to Prod Rules needs?
<Frank>: strongly suspect some of these to be phase 1
... dealing/responding to events requires some of these for phase 1
... to Chris: anything in Phase 2 would have to be expressed in terms of phase 1.
<ChrisW>: never intended to say that
... RIFRAF intended to give us the framework for extensions
... any other comments?
... a requirement based on these set of discriminators seems to be phase 2. It will be assumed as the default unless we have strong argument to make this phase 1. We need a good reason to support something like that
Hassan: mundane comments on the questionnaire: there are some typos: in 2.2...
ChrisW: suggest to put these on an email. Hassan agreed
Jeff: minor point about Prod Rules: wondering if some experts here on Prod Rules can provide some explanations and more detailed info on the wiki page
ChrisW: next step towards that is getting these discriminators to the RIFRAF and then make some requirements out of that. Each requirement will be described somewhere
... on the technical design, there was some recent message posted by Harold and one by Hassan. I encourage everyone to read them. Technical design work continues.... Frank you had an ACTION:
Frank: this is transformed into the issue on types. I will be generating a series of discriminators.



Technical Design
<ChrisW>: Action on PPFS...not due until end of month
Harold's ACTION: done. Linked requirements in UC&R doc with assumptions. This could be extended.
<ChrisW>: Any other comments on technical proposal?



Other Business
<ChrisW>: Any other business?
<Hassan> +1
<sandro> +1 adjourn
ChrisW: hearing none, I propose we adjourn.
Meeting Adjourned



Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: deborahN to clean up html links in Aug 1 minutes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-rif-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: deborahN to move wiki page issues to tracker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-rif-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]




 Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2006/08/08 15:44:51 $