[RIF] Draft minutes from 1 August 2006 WG Meeting - Please review

  <http://www.w3.org/> 


- DRAFT MINUTES -


W3C Rules Interchange Format (RIF) Working Group 


Weekly Teleconference


Date: 1 August 2006


	Time: 1600 UTC, 0800 (West US) 1100 (East US) 1600 (London)
1700 (Paris) 
	Duration: 90 min 
	Bridge: +1.617.761.6200 conference code 74394# ('RIFWG') 
	IRC Chat: irc:irc.w3.org (port 6665), #rif 
	Web-based IRC (member-only):
[http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc] 
	Meeting Wiki:
[http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/2006-08-01_Meeting] 

	See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2006/08/01-rif-irc> 


	Attendees


		Present (in alphabetical order): 
		Hassan Ait-Kaci 
		Harold Boley 
		Philippe Bonnard 
		Donald Chapin 
		Mike Dean 
		Jos De Roo 
		John Hall 
		Gary Hallmark 
		Sandro Hawke 
		David Hirtle 
		Michael Kifer 
		Alex Kozlenkov 
		Frank McCabe 
		Mala Mehrotra 
		Stella Mitchell 
		Leora Morgenstern 
		Igor Mozetic 
		Deborah Nichols 
		Jeff Pan 
		Uta Schwertel 
		Said Tabet 
		Unidentified: +1.650.857.aaaa 

		

		Regrets: 
		Jos de Bruijn 
		Allen Ginsberg (Probably join late) 
		Markus Krötzsch (unintentionally got disconnected from
communication networks due to travel) 
		Paula-Lavinia Patranjan 
		Dave Reynolds 
		Michael Sintek 
		Mohamed Zergaoui (fly to XProc f2f) 

		

		Chair: 
		Sandro Hawke 

		

		Scribe: 
		Deborah Nichols
<http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/DeborahNichols>  (send
corrections to Deborah <mailto:dlnichols@mitre.org> ) 


	Contents


	*	Topics
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#agenda>  

		1.	ADMIN Approval of minutes and Agenda
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item01>  
		2.	Liaison
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item02>  
		3.	Review of Actions for Use Cases & Requirements
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item03>  
		4.	Review of Actions for the RIFRAF
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item04>  
		5.	Changes to the RIFRAF Questionnaire Section 3.1
(decidability)
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item05>  
		6.	Coverage Requirements and the current RIFRAF
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item06>  
		7.	New discriminators for the RIFRAF
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item07>  
		8.	Participation in RIFRAF Questionnaire
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item08>  
		9.	Action Review for other tasks
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item09>  

	*	Summary of Action Items
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#ActionSummary>  

	
________________________________


	ADMIN Approval of minutes and Agenda


	Resolved: Minutes of 18 July 2006 Telecon were approved with
the proviso that Regrets information be added.

	Don Chapin will post the minutes from the 25 July 2006 Telecon
to the WG mailing list (done during the meeting).

	The Chair requested that members who cannot attend the 15
August meeting post Regrets now.

	Members are reminded of the policy to post Regrets for a
meeting a minimum of four days ahead if unable to attend.

	No additions were made to the meeting agenda. Consideration of
Michael's semantics proposal is postponed so that participants have
time to review it. Please see the text in the Extensible_Design
<http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Extensible_Design>  document,
sections A.6 and A.7.


	Liaison


	Most Liaisons were not in attendance and there were no updates.

	If I missed an update on this topic, please let me know. 
Deborah <mailto:dlnichols@mitre.org> )


	Review of Actions for Use Cases & Requirements
<http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/products/5> 


	Action 58 <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/58>
(on Sandro) to solve a formatting problem is continued.

	Action 69 <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/69>
(on Alex) to contact vendors to request feedback on UCR Working Draft 2
is continued. Alex has been in contact with JBoss personnel and is
awaiting their replies. They expressed interest and might participate.

	Action 68 <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/68>
(on Alex) to add a mapping from PR conditions to the proposed RIF
condition language is partially fulfilled. Continued.

	Action 72 <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/72>
(on Don Chapin) to clarify UCR Working Draft issues is continued.

	<Harold> Action 64 was completed (see 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0037.html)
but not marked as closed. 

	The Chair closed Action 64
<http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/64> .


	Review of Actions for the RIFRAF
<http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/products/7> 


	Action 79 <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/79>
(on Frank McCabe) to propose type capabilities as a discriminator is
continued.

	No updates on several actions that are assigned to Axel (not
attending).


	Changes to the RIFRAF Questionnaire Section 3.1 (decidability)


	Chair asked attendees for any response to proposed changes to
the RIFRAF Questionnaire section 3.1 discussed in Markus' email
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0042.html> .
No one made any comments at this time.


	Coverage Requirements and the current RIFRAF


	Some coverage requirements for the RIF that were identified
during F2F3 and incorporated in an earlier version of the RIFRAF are
not included in the current version of the RIFRAF. Paula's email
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0027.html>
details the coverage (or omission) of those Requirements in the current
RIFRAF. The Chair asked for responses on this topic, including comments
on Paula's email and/or discussion of other suggestions on restoring
those Requirements.

	There were no comments or discussion at this time.


	New discriminators for the RIFRAF


	ECA Discriminators

	Discriminators related to events and actions in reactive rules
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html> .
Paula's email proposed new discriminators for the RIFRAF to cover
Event-Condition-Action (ECA) rules, as stipulated in the F2F3 coverage
requirements. Initially there was no discussion. The topic was
revisited after the RIFRAF Questionnaire poll.

	<sandro> Gary and Hassan proposed that Paula's ECA
discriminators be added.

	<AlexKozlenkov> Sounds reasonable

	<FrankMcCabe> +1

	<GaryHallmark> Paula's proposed discriminators are better
aligned with PR than the deduction-oriented questions are, even though
there's a lot about events in her discriminators that doesn't occur in
production rules.

	The Chair noted general agreement among attendees to add
Paula's questions, but we may not have a quorum to decide the question.
We will conclude the question by email.

	Discriminators related to rules meta-model

	The Chair solicited comments on cmsa's email
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0048.html>
from yesterday about discriminators.

	Hassan agreed with Gary (in last meeting) that the notion of
what is a discriminator is confusing, since applicable discriminators
depend on what kind of rule is being considered. cmsa's email proposed
some clarifications that may help. He agreed with cmsa's recommendation
that we not use the terms 'body' and 'head' because those terms are not
used consistently across rules community sub-groups. Hassan was not
sure he understood all csma's points. Hassan agreed on the need for a
"clean" vocabulary about rules and is willing to work with cmsa to come
up with a proposal.

	<sandro> ACTION: Hassan to write response to cmsa's proposal on
rule vocabulary terms, asking him for clarifications where necessary
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/01-rif-minutes.html#action01]

	<Harold> Posting a link to relevant prior discussion on
terminology: 
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Rulesystem_Arrangement_Framework.
See the section "Mapping between deductive rule and reactive rule
terminology." This was basically done by Gary (I mostly assisted), and
should now again be relevant for Christian and Hassan.


	Participation in the RIFRAF Questionnaire
<http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/RAFQuestionnaire/> 


	<scribe> Chair: So far there have been 3 responses
<http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/RAFQuestionnaire/results> ,
describing FLORA (F-Logic+HiLog+Transaction Logic); a subset of
standard Prolog; and the Prova rule language.

	The Chair polled attendees about their participation in the
Questionnaire, including planned/future participation.

	<johnhall> Donald and I didn't have time to turn the
questionnaire with colleagues on our team

	<sandro> Sandro: n3, prolog -- hopefully soon

	<sandro> Harold: oo-jdew

	<DavidHirtle> OO jDREW generally

	<Alex> Alex has already submitted for the Prova rule language.

	<Deborah:> Will propose to MITRE Rules MSR team doing it for
SWRL with proposed extensions.

	<Mike_Dean:> Peter is also working on SWRL.

	The Chair observed it would be fine to have two views of SWRL,
esp. from two different perspectives (theoretical and pragmatic).

	<sandro> Frank: planing to do GO -- typed

	<igor> I have no plans for covering another language [already
did Prolog].

	<JeffP> Plan to cover CIF but first need to talk to some people
on holiday.

	<sandro> John: want to do SBVR -- with help from Terry Halpin.

	Attendees asked whether there a new deadline, since the cutoff
was yesterday?

	<sandro> Don: have changes from last week been made?

	<sandro> Don: Looking for deadline.

	<StellaMitchell> Will respond for an ECA language she is
currently working with that is an internal IBM language, not a product.

	The Chair suggested that Stella look at Paula's suggested
discriminators
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html>
to see if they make sense for her ECA language.

	<sandro> Hassan: I provided descriptions early on for LIFE and
ILOG's products -- need to put it on the Questionnaire.

	The Chair requested Hassan to transfer the content of his
earlier work on LIFE and ILOG to the RIFRAF Questionnaire page.

	<sandro> Gary: I'll do it for Jess or Oracles's language -- but
I want to wait for Paula's work
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html>
to be incorporated in the Questionnaire.

	<johnhall> +1

	Proposed: Add Paula's discriminators to the Questionnaire. See
under Topic 7
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/dlnichols/My%20Documents/W3C/RIF
-WG/Minutes%2008012006/Copy%20of%2001-rif-minutes%20-%20draft%20revisio
n%20-%20DNichols.htm#item07>  for discussion.

	<Harold> Recommends that the RIFRAF Questionnaire be filled out
for each of the languages and/or systems included in the table on the
"Rule Systems" page (
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/List_of_Rule_Systems).

	<SaidTabet> Events are a whole area currently explored and
known in the industry as 'Event Streaming' or 'Complex Events
Processing', there was a workshop on the topic earlier this year and
the topics of ECA rules came up...Will post the URL later

	The Chair offered to create a link from the Questionnaire to
the List of Rule Systems to track that each is done.

	<sandro> Mike_Dean: I'd be happy to review the entries for
SWRL.

	<sandro> Sandro: Would you be willing to do N3?

	<sandro> Mike: I'll review yours!

	<sandro> PhilippeB: Not committed at the moment. Might do
jrules, but he wants to discuss with csma and Hakim before committing.

	<sandro> JosDeRoo: euler/n3 - in the coming weeks.

	<MichaelKifer> Is not planning to do an additional language
[already submitted for FLORA].

	<Leora:> Plans to do another internal IBM language, a subset of
FOL (called "ESN" internally but not really named), by a week from
Friday.

	<MalaMehrotra> Will touch base with Leora and then make a
commitment.

	<John Hall (for Said Tabet)> Said plans to do the Questionnaire
for RuleML.

	The Chair concluded the survey of current and planned responses
to the RIFRAF Questionnaire.


	Action Review for other tasks


	<scribe> Chair: Harold's action due date was updated.

	<scribe> Chair: Hassan's action for mapping condition language
was continued, to be due next week.

	<scribe> Chair: Michael posted his action result this morning.
Closed.

	<scribe> Chair: Paula is not here to discuss her actions.

	<scribe> Chair: Sandro's action items were also continued.

	Meeting adjourned at 12:11 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time (U.S.).


	Summary of Action Items


	[NEW] ACTION: Hassan to write response to Christian's proposal,
asking for clarifications where necessary [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2006/08/01-rif-minutes.html#action01]

	List of open Actions for RIF WG
<http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/open>   
	 
	
________________________________

	Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
version 1.127 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/> )
	$Date: 2006/08/01 16:11:36 $