Re: Planning to close the RDF Surfaces Community Group

Hi Ian

The experiments can be found here :

https://github.com/KNowledgeOnWebScale/n3s-policy-consistency-checker

https://github.com/KNowledgeOnWebScale/birthday


We have also contributions to the ESWC conference next week that discuss the potential for RDF Surfaces for policy implementors.

BR,

Patrick

From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Thursday, 22 May 2025 at 15:15
To: Patrick Hochstenbach <Patrick.Hochstenbach@UGent.be>
Cc: Jos De Roo <josderoo@gmail.com>, David Booth <david@dbooth.org>, public-rdfsurfaces@w3.org <public-rdfsurfaces@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Planning to close the RDF Surfaces Community Group
Thank you for the update, Patrick. We won’t close the group and we’ll check in again in about six months. For the ODRL experiments, if you set up a repo for those, send me the link.

Thank you,

Ian

> On May 21, 2025, at 11:37 PM, Patrick Hochstenbach <Patrick.Hochstenbach@UGent.be> wrote:
>
> Hi Ian, Jos, David
>  Yes, there is continued interest and work on the RDF Surfaces. We are currently working in our group test RDF Surfaces on some use-cases to discover our requirements gap (we many focus on policy languages, such as ODRL implementations [1]). Indeed there is an accepted conference paper [2] and a SWJ journal paper [3] waiting for acceptance that contain both a more formal approach to RDF Surfaces we would like to provide the starting point for a specification for the CG.
>
> It would be great if we could add the RDF Surfaces tests to the CG home page and including also the ODRL experiments. I will figure out how to add those.
>
> We will soon also open again the group video calls to discuss the current state and future directions.
>
> BR
> Patrick Hochstenbach
>
> [1] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FKNowledgeOnWebScale%2Fn3s-policy-consistency-checker&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190477014%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=08xad5X25WU7EA7WUnr9VZM7EANRmo2sKWa4QsiuT3c%3D&reserved=0<https://github.com/KNowledgeOnWebScale/n3s-policy-consistency-checker>
> [2] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Fchapter%2F10.1007%2F978-3-031-72407-7_15&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190511448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JXahZwhcSTKyy%2BM5KeIUqxX20Dx%2BgVFkV%2FVniorfJXg%3D&reserved=0<https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-72407-7_15>
> [3] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.semantic-web-journal.net%2Fcontent%2Frdf-surfaces-enabling-classical-negation-semantic-web&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190526179%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l8aohsosCWbPre3H7n0d%2F99RI0M1Sn%2FU3HHDymcP7hY%3D&reserved=0<https://www.semantic-web-journal.net/content/rdf-surfaces-enabling-classical-negation-semantic-web>
>  From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
> Date: Wednesday, 21 May 2025 at 21:12
> To: Jos De Roo <josderoo@gmail.com>
> Cc: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>, public-rdfsurfaces@w3.org <public-rdfsurfaces@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Planning to close the RDF Surfaces Community Group
> Hi all,
>
> I asked some questions in the original email and it would be great to get a better understanding of (1) where current work is happening and (2) whether there are any standardization plans.
>
> Thanks for the links you’ve provided. A few notes:
>
> 1) RDF Surfaces Primer. This does not appear to be a deliverable of the CG (given the front matter). Is it intended to be a CG deliverable? (Also, it does not appear
>     to be a Specification, so I don’t have IPR questions for you.)
>
> 2) RDF Surfaces tests. Should we link to that repo from the CG home page? That would help our tools detect activity.
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Ian
>
> > On May 21, 2025, at 1:24 PM, Jos De Roo <josderoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ian and David,
> >
> > The work is by far not done, there is an initial spec [1],
> > 4 independent implementations [4] and a SWJ Journal paper
> > in the works [3] but this is just scratching the surfaces :-)
> >
> > So let us continue and I believe this is also what Pat Hayes
> > who is the originator of RDF Surfaces [4], would want.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Jos
> >
> > -- https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjosd.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190542945%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rhTMoP1YycmVvvCdRdWrYQvxK2mQyOGVyZ68jzCfc7I%3D&reserved=0<https://josd.github.io/>
> >
> > [1] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c-cg.github.io%2Frdfsurfaces%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190560518%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YGVuoOnmwbxxaRBChGUTjTtxMce2fU%2B5ZFleAnIPYOI%3D&reserved=0<https://w3c-cg.github.io/rdfsurfaces/>
> > [2] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Feyereasoner%2Frdfsurfaces-tests&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190578953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lfBq42E5nyWJ%2Fj9Zt0Bkc8FWcAJywa0x2L0sY9HSiMU%3D&reserved=0<https://github.com/eyereasoner/rdfsurfaces-tests>
> > [3] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farxiv.org%2Fabs%2F2406.10659&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190597262%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uZxDKAokwusK90i7e7yWG3aDOZ4tNesW6Yvb5g1P2jQ%3D&reserved=0<https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.10659>
> > [4] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slideshare.net%2Fslideshow%2Fblogic-iswc-2009-invited-talk%2F2369735&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190618825%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zo%2BxaVbGQ%2FFX%2B89lg8Gb%2Bvu4eo9zEtwbgJ4t9EPixsA%3D&reserved=0<https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/blogic-iswc-2009-invited-talk/2369735>
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 7:59 PM David Booth <david@dbooth.org> wrote:
> > Ian's message:
> >
> > On 5/20/25 14:19, Ian Jacobs wrote:
> > > Dear participants in the
> > >
> > >    RDF Surfaces Community Group
> > >    https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fcommunity%2Frdfsurfaces%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190639280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Xe24OE6ZWvTb87LHR6Df9SQzV9plcUHZXX8Z7czz%2ByI%3D&reserved=0<https://www.w3.org/community/rdfsurfaces/>
> > >
> > > Your Community Group appears to have become inactive (per [1]). Based on discussions with W3C staff we are planning to close this group. If you have any questions, please respond to this email before 27 May 2025.
> >
> > prompted me to notice this from a year ago:
> >
> > On 5/3/24 03:48, Jos De Roo wrote:
> >  > Hi,
> >  >
> >  > There is a new RDF Surfaces Primer Living Document, 1 May 2024
> >  > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c-cg.github.io%2Frdfsurfaces%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190654646%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dOdowsCPm2VhAAkO4rUU78VnEddL52bSANP98dN307I%3D&reserved=0<https://w3c-cg.github.io/rdfsurfaces/>
> >  > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c-cg.github.io%2Frdfsurfaces%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190673343%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0Hba2Dnx%2FoiMCXJw0aNo7FhPD0LxZmlYKjo%2FXhLOfWA%3D&reserved=0<https://w3c-cg.github.io/rdfsurfaces/>>
> >
> > I'm sorry that this document escaped my attention when it was posted.  I
> > am now looking at it, and I like what I am reading.  I think this work
> > really has merit, and I hope that interest in it does not disappear.  I
> > do have some specific suggestions on the draft document, but first I'm
> > wonder where others stand, about Ian's intention to close the group.
> >
> > Should this group continue?  Is there still interest?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David Booth
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > CG/BG System
> > >
> > > [1] https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fcommunity%2Fabout%2Ffaq%2F%23close-inactive&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190701773%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IR8ptbGfxsVHY%2FJc8WgQC4HGg55cYQcycc68gw4d3BE%3D&reserved=0<https://www.w3.org/community/about/faq/#close-inactive>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
> > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FJacobs%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190726923%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lXMkLC2l0eMw996pKvTmrfoFS68sgR8ixDTpaixU7iw%3D&reserved=0<https://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/>
> > > Tel: +1 917 450 8783
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
> Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FJacobs%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190748775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XzJ2vW7Ds73xuY02IxfYn1278ZobHLisEf7BOVeVjBM%3D&reserved=0<https://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/>
> Tel: +1 917 450 8783
>
>
>
>
>

--
Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FJacobs%2F&data=05%7C02%7CPatrick.Hochstenbach%40ugent.be%7C606e0ee684254f4b722b08dd9932b18c%7Cd7811cdeecef496c8f91a1786241b99c%7C1%7C0%7C638835165190772534%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rPtT6pEgVmEV4P64Q%2FeVBWP%2FqQGIxLpEJvZvRPP31hg%3D&reserved=0<https://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/>
Tel: +1 917 450 8783