Re: Implementation report RDF Semantics

On 18-12-13 13:12, Sandro Hawke wrote:
> Ivan Herman <> wrote:
>> Thanks Peter
>> What effect does this have on the PR transition? Strictly speaking, we
>> do not have two independent implementations for the complete test
>> suite, ie, we have not fulfilled our exit criteria. Can there be a
>> clear explanation that can be used to convince the Director that we can
>> move ahead nevertheless? (I am looking for an elevator pitch equivalent
>> of what you write below; something like "these tests are side-effect on
>> the approach used for otherwise correct inference engines"...) One
>> could actually argue whether these tests are correct in the first place
>> if they are really dependent on the engines.
> One procedural technique would be to rescind those tests as not helpful to interoperability.

OK, so lets look at the two tests:

1. datatypes-intensional-xsd-integer-string-incompatible [1]

xsd:integer rdfs:subClassOf xsd:string .

As I said earlier: this requires a form of disjointness reasoning 
(primitive datatypes are disjoint). Our ClioPatria reasoner handles it 
correctly, because we built  a kind of first-principles reasoner. 
However, such an approach is  typically not taken by tool builders, 
because it is not very efficient. The fact that the test is false will 
typically be built implicitly into the machinery, so the system can't 
actually say explictly it is wrong.

I suggest that failing this test is therefore in practice not a threat 
to implementation interoperability.

2. xmlsch-02-whitespace-facet-3 [2]

ex:a ex:prop "3"^^xsd:int .
ex:a ex:prop [ a rdfs:Literal ] .

A bit of the same story. Yes, it is true. When reasoning from first 
principles you would derive this fact. But why would an implementation 

What you do care about as implementer are the other datatype tests, e.g.:
* when there is a mismatch/equality/.. between two literals
* when there is a mismatch between a literal and its datatype.
Those are interoperability issues. And we have plenty of tests for 
these. But these issues are not at stake in the two tests above.

I therefore PROPOSE that these two tests be rescinded as they are not 
helpful to interoperability.


>      - Sandro
>> Thanks
>> Ivan
>> On 17 Dec 2013, at 21:55 , Peter F. Patel-Schneider
>> <> wrote:
>>> Here is my analysis of the two "failures" from Corese.
>>> datatypes-intensional-xsd-integer-string-incompatible
>>>     The test says that it is inconsistent to state that xsd:integer is
>> a
>>>     subclass of xsd:string.
>>> As most implementations directly implement datatype reasoning, they
>> don't
>>> depend on this fact about integers and strings.  They can correctly
>> reason
>>> about data values without noticing this invariant fact about the
>> datatype
>>> classes themselves.
>>> OWL implementations have to reason from facts like these, for example
>> to
>>> correctly infer that the intersection of string and integer is empty,
>> and so
>>> any property with both string and integer as a range can never have
>> any
>>> fillers.
>>> xmlsch-02-whitespace-facet-3
>>>     Test that an explicit literal implies a blank filler that is a
>> Literal
>>> Most forward-chaining implementations of RDF reasoning do not
>> directly
>>> perform complete entailment.  This kind of inference and perhaps one
>> other
>>> is then handled by a separate portion of the system, which appears to
>> not be
>>> part of the Corese that was used in the testing.
>>> So, Corese appears to have a good implementation of the core of
>> forward-chaining RDF entailment, but does not directly implement two
>> special cases (one related to datatype intensions and one related to
>> datatype extensions and blank nodes).
>>> peter
>>> On 12/17/2013 10:00 AM, Ivan Herman wrote:
>>>> Looks much better! Thanks
>>>> Guys, we have two implementations of semantics. One is 100% (hurray
>> Jan!), one is almost 100%. Peter, it would probably be good to have a
>> good idea tomorrow why Corese fails on two tests and whether those are
>> essential in terms of testing. Put it another way, can we try to go to
>> PR based on these test results?
>>>> (We are still missing Michael Schreiber's report...)
>>>> Ivan
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>> Home:
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Received on Wednesday, 18 December 2013 13:41:20 UTC