- From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:37:21 -0500
- To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Cc: Andy Seaborne <andy.seaborne@epimorphics.com>, Steve Harris <steve.harris@garlik.com>, RDF Working Group <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>
On Mar 25, 2011, at 3:59 AM, Ivan Herman wrote: > > On Mar 25, 2011, at 09:57 , Andy Seaborne wrote: >> >> RDF collections being encoded in triples are very hard to deal with generally. Next time, make them first class objects in the data model please. >> > > Operative being 'next', not 'present' :-) Awwww, you are no fun. Pat > > Ivan > > >> Andy >> >> On 25/03/11 08:33, Steve Harris wrote: >>> Equally I see using [ ] just to encode multiple object for a single >>> subject and predicate as problematic, consider (in no particular >>> syntax): >>> >>> { ... "http://example.com/alice": { "foaf:name": "Alice" }, >>> "http://example.com/bob": { "foaf:name": [ "Bob", "Bob Smith" ] } } >>> >>> That makes access to the data without a library tricky, as for every >>> "object" you read, you'll need some conditional designed to test if >>> it's an array/vector/list, or a literal value. >>> >>> Though it makes the simple case uglier, it would probably be better >>> to always use an array to represent objects, if the aim is to allow >>> access without a library: >>> >>> { ... "http://example.com/alice": { "foaf:name": [ "Alice" ] }, >>> "http://example.com/bob": { "foaf:name": [ "Bob", "Bob Smith" ] } } >>> >>> I'm also not keen on [[ ]] for RDF collections, but don't see a >>> sensible alternative. The triple-based representation is neither >>> machine, nor human friendly, IMHO. >>> >>> - Steve >>> >>> On 2011-03-25, at 08:11, Ivan Herman wrote: >>> >>>> I agree that having a syntactic sugar for lists would be a good >>>> thing, similarly to what Turtle already has. >>>> >>>> The problem is that the list syntax of JSON, ie, '[...]' is would >>>> be very useful for cases when we'd want to define shortcuts. Eg, >>>> the equivalent of >>>> >>>> :a :b :c, :d . >>>> >>>> in Turtle would make use of something like '[ :c, :d ]' and I am >>>> not sure there is an alternative for that. >>>> >>>> So no, it is not trivial nor obvious... Hence the slightly ugly >>>> >>>> [[ :c,:d ]] >>>> >>>> proposal that came up on the list. I would have to hold by nose >>>> looking at that, but I do not see any radically different >>>> alternative:-( >>>> >>>> Ivan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 25, 2011, at 24:25 , Pat Hayes wrote: >>>> >>>>> Um... I am not sure if this is trivial or obvious, but has the WG >>>>> thought about the RDF collections vocabulary in the JSON context? >>>>> Since this is supposed to correspond as nearly as possible to a >>>>> LISP list, it seems it would be 'natural' for an RDF collection >>>>> to map into a JSON array. And if this is to round-trip, then >>>>> these arrays must be somehow marked as coming from an RDF >>>>> collection so that they can be mapped back into one. >>>>> >>>>> I wish I had something more constructive to offer on this point, >>>>> but I don't, other than to suggest it might turn out to be >>>>> important, since the collection vocabulary is used to extensively >>>>> in the OWL/RDF syntax. While OWL is not a prime target for our >>>>> WG, it would seem to be a good idea to define a JSON mapping >>>>> which does not completely screw up OWL, if at all possible. >>>>> >>>>> Just a 2c observation. >>>>> >>>>> Pat ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> IHMC (850)434 8903 or >>>>> (650)494 3973 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 >>>>> office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax >>>>> FL 32502 (850)291 0667 mobile >>>>> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead Home: >>>> http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 PGP Key: >>>> http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html FOAF: >>>> http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > > > ---- > Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead > Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ > mobile: +31-641044153 > PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html > FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32502 (850)291 0667 mobile phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Friday, 25 March 2011 13:37:56 UTC