Re: From syntactic to interpreted triple

I didn't mean "the proposed semantics can consider embedded RDF* triples 
as referentially transparent". I agree that it does not.

What I meant is "the proposed semantics covers /that use case". 
/Differently, of course, of how if would be covered with 
referentially-transparent triples.

On 07/02/2021 15:59, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
> On 2/7/21 5:36 AM, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>
>> On 05/02/2021 17:17, thomas lörtsch wrote:
>>> It is easy to come up with scenarios where it is either important to record
> exactly which IRI was used to refer to :Berlin or where it is not important at
> all.
>> Absolutely
>>> The latter is most probably the normal case (and the proposed RDF*
> semantics doesn’t cover it).
>> Can we agree that the proposed RDF* semantics covers it, although not in
> your favourite way?
>
> I'm not agreeing on this.
>
> There are
> https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/tests/semantics/manifest.html#opaque-iri and
> similar test cases which, if approved, would require the RDF* semantics to be
> (semi-)opaque.
>
>
> But perhaps the question is whether it is easier to transform a transparent
> semantics to a (semi-)opaque semantics or vice versa.
>
> Let's consider a transparent semantics - standard RDF reification.   I have
> shown that it is easy to transform standard RDF reification to opaque
> semantics of various forms by adding extra triples to the reification to
> encode the syntax of the triple that is being reified.  This can be modified
> to be sensitive to the predicate of the triple that the embedded triple occurs in.
>
> It is also possible to add semantic rules to (semi-)opaque RDF* semantics that
> have triples in their interpretations.  The rule
>    if I(z) = I(z') then I(<< x y z>> :on w.) is true iff I(<< x y z'>> :on w.)
> is true
> adds a (little) bit of transparency.
>
> But these are only examples of the axiom that modifying the formal
> underpinnings of a logic can do just about anything.
>
>
> As far as I am concerned, none of the proposed RDF* semantics cover the
> transparent reading of embedded triples.x
>
> peter
>
>
>